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Originally Posted by shiznit
(Post 1203001)
Scope is more than RJ's.... Ask any NYC ER or LAX 73N pilot.
This contract recaptures control of flying that was previously allowed to be outsourced. Period. That is not concessionary. |
Originally Posted by iahflyr
(Post 1203428)
It is not 1994 any more. It is 2012 and the world is different. Those old rates no longer apply.
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Originally Posted by whaledriver1
(Post 1203513)
100% correct, DAL LAX pilots have lost a ton of flying to Alaska 737 pilots... we need to fix the scope on this TA. Vote No.
The ALK code share allowance is reduced from 50% down to 35%! (SEA-ATL/MSP remain at 50%, but prohibits any codeshare that doesn't include a leg flown on DAL metal). See they did listen.... Scope is better than without this TA. |
Originally Posted by shiznit
(Post 1203907)
We DID improve ALK scope....
The ALK code share allowance is reduced from 50% down to 35%! (SEA-ATL/MSP remain at 50%, but prohibits any codeshare that doesn't include a leg flown on DAL metal). See they did listen.... Scope is better than without this TA. But they come at the expense of outsourcing the equivalent of two additional Compass Airlines - voluntarily, when Compass was something that was stolen from the pilots in bankruptcy, with the NWA pilots crying bloody murder at the time. Although it's currently in vogue for regional pilots to decry how the major guys sold them out by giving up jumbo RJs, I understand that for the most part those airplanes were stolen in BK. But now you're advocating giving up more voluntarily. Think what that does to unity down the road, as more ex-RJ drivers move to the majors. I think we need to put a little context on what you guys lost when you outsourced one Compass Airlines. I have landed the E175 at 83 airports in 40 states and five provinces. Our network covers all four corners - YVR, SNA/LAX, MIA, PWM. It's coast to coast. I've done extensive flying out of MSP, DTW, MEM, SLC, JFK, LGA, CVG, and ATL. It has penetrated every hub. I have flown it MSP-DTW, MSP-MEM, DTW-ATL, JFK/LGA-MSP, CVG-ATL, MSP-SLC, and LGA-ATL. They're using it for hub-to-hub. Over the last 4.5 years, my average stage length has been 2 hours 30 minutes. I fly routes of over 1000 nm with regularity. MSP-YVR, LAX-MCI-BOS, DTW-MRY (Monterey Mx), JFK-DFW, and MEM-PHX are all examples of ridiculously long "regional" routes the E175/CRJ9 can and does fly with ease. In the early 2000s, NWA had a ton of great Montana layovers. Kalispell, Missoula, Helena, Bozeman, Billings. Every single one of those are primarily Compass now. In 2005, the Airbus flew from MSP to DFW, IAH, AUS, and SAT. Those are mostly E175/CRJ900 routes now. There are a ton of commuters on those routes, and they hate it. They say the commute has gone way downhill. Senior captains here are able to hold 18-20 days off here despite our inferior work rules. Mid-seniority pilots hold 15-16. It's due to the type of flying we do. Those numbers would be higher with mainline work rules. I'm not saying any of this to brag. I hate that we do this. I would prefer to have served my regional time on a sweaty B1900 busting out eight legs a day. This is what was stolen from you in bankruptcy court. Now, I will freely admit that you are getting some great stuff in Section 1 on this TA. It is not free. You are giving up two more Compasses. Think about it. |
Originally Posted by JungleBus
(Post 1204021)
You know, I've actually gone over Section 1 quite a few times, and for the most part it really is an improvement, if the language is vigorously enforced and loopholes aren't taken advantage of. There's a lot to like there, and I certainly think that reasonable and informed voters can call it a win - Bucking Bar comes especially to mind. It puts limits on AK codeshare - win. It expands control over JVs - win. It puts hard caps on DCI airframes - win. It should reduce the percentage of flying done by DCI - win. These are all good things, I don't try to deny it.
But they come at the expense of outsourcing the equivalent of two additional Compass Airlines - voluntarily, when Compass was something that was stolen from the pilots in bankruptcy, with the NWA pilots crying bloody murder at the time. Although it's currently in vogue for regional pilots to decry how the major guys sold them out by giving up jumbo RJs, I understand that for the most part those airplanes were stolen in BK. But now you're advocating giving up more voluntarily. Think what that does to unity down the road, as more ex-RJ drivers move to the majors. I think we need to put a little context on what you guys lost when you outsourced one Compass Airlines. I have landed the E175 at 83 airports in 40 states and five provinces. Our network covers all four corners - YVR, SNA/LAX, MIA, PWM. It's coast to coast. I've done extensive flying out of MSP, DTW, MEM, SLC, JFK, LGA, CVG, and ATL. It has penetrated every hub. I have flown it MSP-DTW, MSP-MEM, DTW-ATL, JFK/LGA-MSP, CVG-ATL, MSP-SLC, and LGA-ATL. They're using it for hub-to-hub. Over the last 4.5 years, my average stage length has been 2 hours 30 minutes. I fly routes of over 1000 nm with regularity. MSP-YVR, LAX-MCI-BOS, DTW-MRY (Monterey Mx), JFK-DFW, and MEM-PHX are all examples of ridiculously long "regional" routes the E175/CRJ9 can and does fly with ease. In the early 2000s, NWA had a ton of great Montana layovers. Kalispell, Missoula, Helena, Bozeman, Billings. Every single one of those are primarily Compass now. In 2005, the Airbus flew from MSP to DFW, IAH, AUS, and SAT. Those are mostly E175/CRJ900 routes now. There are a ton of commuters on those routes, and they hate it. They say the commute has gone way downhill. Senior captains here are able to hold 18-20 days off here despite our inferior work rules. Mid-seniority pilots hold 15-16. It's due to the type of flying we do. Those numbers would be higher with mainline work rules. I'm not saying any of this to brag. I hate that we do this. I would prefer to have served my regional time on a sweaty B1900 busting out eight legs a day. This is what was stolen from you in bankruptcy court. Now, I will freely admit that you are getting some great stuff in Section 1 on this TA. It is not free. You are giving up two more Compasses. Think about it. Don't expect Compass to be flying to a those "nice" cities once this program is complete. All of the cities and routes that the 180 parked 50's are abandoning will still need service. Remember that this TA actually REMOVES an equivalent of 5 Compasses before "adding 2".. That is a net LOSS of three Compasses, and all those 65 seaters and 76 seaters are going to have to backfill many if not all of those old 50 seat routes/cities... |
Originally Posted by shiznit
(Post 1204149)
Before you go back to your appropriate part of APC, it is nice to see that you recognize all the gains in scope that this TA contains.
Don't expect Compass to be flying to a those "nice" cities once this program is complete. All of the cities and routes that the 180 parked 50's are abandoning will still need service. Remember that this TA actually REMOVES an equivalent of 5 Compasses before "adding 2".. That is a net LOSS of three Compasses, and all those 65 seaters and 76 seaters are going to have to backfill many if not all of those old 50 seat routes/cities... Hahaha this guy says u can only post in ur appropriate part of APC. Well shiznit I belong below the regional section is there a commuter section we can create? |
Originally Posted by shiznit
(Post 1204149)
Before you go back to your appropriate part of APC, it is nice to see that you recognize all the gains in scope that this TA contains.
Don't expect Compass to be flying to a those "nice" cities once this program is complete. All of the cities and routes that the 180 parked 50's are abandoning will still need service. Remember that this TA actually REMOVES an equivalent of 5 Compasses before "adding 2".. That is a net LOSS of three Compasses, and all those 65 seaters and 76 seaters are going to have to backfill many if not all of those old 50 seat routes/cities... |
Originally Posted by shiznit
(Post 1204149)
Don't expect Compass to be flying to a those "nice" cities once this program is complete. All of the cities and routes that the 180 parked 50's are abandoning will still need service. Remember that this TA actually REMOVES an equivalent of 5 Compasses before "adding 2".. That is a net LOSS of three Compasses, and all those 65 seaters and 76 seaters are going to have to backfill many if not all of those old 50 seat routes/cities...
Before you go back to your appropriate part of APC, it is nice to see that you recognize all the gains in scope that this TA contains. |
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