I see your points as well. But I have to look to the future. I have no confidence that we can/will recapture 76'ers down the road. Next time will the Co ask for just another 50 76'ers? If we agree to this then the Mngt knows we can be bought by Rj's. If we tied a sunset to these Rj's then that might have been different.

I too can live w/ the small pay raise. I'm not happy about the sick leave holes and I don't like the reserve. But I just can justify the additional Rj's. How do we even know that we will get all the 717's and that we won;t be parking other a/c? I have yet to see how this is a guarantee. I have read some scenarios posted here by others that show how the Co could get around this and continue to outsource.

I think ACL has the bigger picture...There is something looming around the corner and RA want's to have all his loose ends tied up. I'm all for this, but not at the expense of more Rj's. Did the NC suggest that WE fly the Rj's @ a competitive rate? I wonder.

Baja.

First off, UAL does not allow 78 seat jets. They allow 78 seat turboprops. They currently have ZERO.

The 70 seat jet also has a block hour ratio. They just can't add as many as they want. They currently operate 124+/- jets in this range. Operators are GoJet, Mesa, Shuttle America, and Skywest. My data for aircraft is a couple of months old, so if you have more current information, please feel free to add.


Here is the large RJ fleet

UAX CRJ900s - 0 DCI - 101
UAX E175s - 0 DCI - 52
UAX CRJ700s - 104 DCI - 82
UAX E170s - 20 DCI - 20

UAX + CAL CRJ900/E175 = 0
DAL (76 seater) CRJ900/E175 = 153

UAX + CAL CRJ700/E170 = 124
DAL (70 seater) CRJ700/E170 = 102

LARGE RJs (51+ seats)
UAL + CAL = 124
DAL (alone) = 255
DAL TA = 325

As per the negotiators notepad UAL/CAL have 555 regional planes in operation. What is happening is their fleet will be shrinking as well. Remember the Pinnacle bankruptcy? That will park ALL of their SAAB 340s (operating for UAL). Also, all the Q400s for CAL are in being released due to bankruptcy. Their fleet will be shrinking as well. UAL has been parking 50 seaters. Mesa has lost all of their CRJ200 flying over the last several years, Trans States has shrunk incredibly also.


Caution (public math to determine 50 seaters)
555 total jets (source negotiators notepad)

16 Q200s (37 props)
5 Q300s (50 seat props)
30 Q400s (78 seat props)
34 SF340s (30 some seat prop)

85 total props
124 large RJs (from above)

That leaves 346 50 seat jets

The truth is that US Airways and Delta have the highest amount and the largest RJs flying. Only US Airways and Delta have the CRJ900 and/or the E175. Even then, USAirways has about 77 of them while Delta operates 153. We need to stop outsourcing these large RJs. The line can not move anymore.

Troof. It's absolutely incredible to me that we're even talking about outsourcing another 70 mainline-replacement jets. Two months ago if Carl had said DALPA was going to allow it he would have been thoroughly denounced by all comers including tsquare, shiz, slowplay, alfa, and sailingfun.

Heck, in 2009 I witnessed ACL65 take on Lee Moak over DALPA not trying to take back 76 seat flying, and he actually made the argument that if we don't recapture it, the line in the sand will just move again. Lee's response? "There's no way we'd ever give up any more airplanes, the line pilots would throw a fit! We're done giving up scope!" I heard it with my own two ears. Wonder what they'll say in 2015?

Oh yes, that was the day of the Compass Resolution in ATL.........

Yep, Lee said it as the meeting in his office was breaking up. Slowplay could actually verify the quote if he was so inclined, he was standing in the doorway at that point as I recall.

You forgot to include AMR

AMR 1113C proposal:

255 88 seat RJ's or 1/2 of mainline fleet (currently allow 300 88 seat RJ)

APA agreement with USAirways (at current fleet size)

308 81 seat RJ's
352 up to 70 seat RJ's.

The judge is supposed to rule on the 1113C motion late next month. AMR/APA are in court supervised meidation right now, and a deal is possible before the ruling.

So we negotiated the way we did because of a possibility?

Seriously guys, don't we think the mainline fleet is going to > 790 if the 717 / MD90 / 737's arrive and the replacement of 757's is "leisurely" ? If so, management has their 76 seaters under current language. By 2015 management will certainly be on their way to getting those airplanes while retiring some of the oldest CRJ700's (which are not the Next Gen aircraft).

If not provided with contractual relief then I (and others) expect the CRj 200's to hang around until they hit their required heavy checks, which should come due about 10 to 12 years after they were placed in service. Some of those airplanes were still coming as late as 2006 / 2007 on orders placed in 2004.

My question is not whether this contract is everything I want. My question is whether this contract gets us closer to what we collectively want to achieve in the reduction of outsourcing.

Am I looking at this incorrectly?

If that quote is true, why did he go forward with his planned presentation on how outsourcing made good economic sense and why was Compass's direction no more influenced by the desires of Delta pilots than the path of the 12:00 Express Train?

He also told me he had no intention of running for ALPA President. Now that I think of it, nothing I ever heard that man say has ever been truthful.

Moak's scope vision was completely unworkable nonsense requiring an bulletproof alliance between pilots at carriers from Expressjet, to GoJets, to Republic & Co. I figure he planned it that way for political cover while he continued to wheel and deal with other pilots' jobs. The 76 seat grievance was after the Compass vote. ...

For someone that says they only state FACTS, that isn't a FACT quite yet! It is a proposal and RAHC's message clearly says flying..as in current in the fleet!
Please stick to your facts and please stop trying to sway us with fear.