Let the United States lead the way on this. The first and only fair retirement age in aviation. We'll call it Fly 'till you Die!

What you are describing and what you are concerned about are the terms of a labor contract. Take these questions up with your union.

Federal law, FAR 121.383 (c), does not now and should never mandate terms of retirement. The word retirement is even not found in this regulation, it only establishes an age restriction for pilots operating aircraft in Part 121 operations.

Retirement should be a choice. If you want a mandatory retirement age within your company, be it either age 55 or age 65, write that into your CBA and allow other companies to choose their own retirement plan. Do not force the rest of the industry to conform to your union’s politics.

ATlineholder,

What rule has changed? Last time I checked the age 60 rule is still in effect.

Why do safety and our careers have to be compromised because of your selfish greed?

All you're trying to do is change the rules in the middle of the game (a rule you have already prospered under) just to put more money in your back pocket. That money is a direct transfer of wealth coming from the junior folks on the property.

Some of the senior guys are licking their chops and stand to profit over $1 million if the law is stretched out an additional five years.

AA767AV8TOR

OV1D,

You are a fool if you believe it will work out like that. With all the money the airlines invest in pilots, they want and need pilots to work right up to retirement age. You can count on strict penalties for any early-outs.

Hell, pilots can’t even negotiate a solid retirement anymore. That’s the reason for the push to Age 65 and you think our negotiating teams will be able to draw up a no penalty early-out.

Keep dreaming.

AA767AV8TOR

Or..Fly 'til Pax Die :eek:

I may sound like a broken record, but to hear the pro age 65 crowd chant that the junior guys are selfish has got to be the most idiotic reasoning yet. This after they themselves have enjoyed career advancement and have prospered under the same age 60 rule they now want to deny to the younger guys.

Now because of their own personal hardships, lack of success at the negotiation table, and poor planning; they are attempting to pick the pockets of all the junior folks for their own personal gain.

Nobody since 1958 has been promised a job flying a Part 121 airliner over the age of 60 and should have planned properly for the event. If you are not prepared at age 60, why do we have to suffer? There are numerous other jobs and careers available to someone over age 60. You just want to take the easy way out and make others pay for your own ineptness.

This is called greed and is the ultimate of wanting your cake and eating it too.

This proposal needs to be shot in the head. For you junior guys, let your Congressman and the FAA know your feelings. We can defeat this POS.

AA767AV8TOR

Hey A767
You assume that all Pilots approaching 60 have been at or with same company for the last 20 years and you also sound as if you assume that all of them have been WB CAPTS earning big bucks for the last 10 years or so. It just ain't so!

What about the Pilots at the BIG 4 airlines that have had their pensions wiped out,,,,,,,,,,,,,You guys could be next, lets hope NOT.

What about the former TWA CAPT who is furloughed from AA awaiting recall?

What about the Former 10 year Eastern Pilot who went to work for USAir in 1989 and is furloughed from USAir and awaiting recall?

What about the poor unlucky SOB who just happenesto be at his 3rd or 4th airline and due to no fualt of his own has no more Pension, except for maybe 200 grand in his 401K......We have many Junior FO's at FedEx that are in their 50's from various backgrounds.

Look as I have said before, I too have reservations about raising the Age.
Mostly with the concerns companys' intent on making it mandatory not voluntary.......ie, retiring at 61 would be 4 years early.

Concerns about the IRS rules on B funds if age 60 is changed.
I've already lost 1 pension from a failed carrier and I am one of the lucky ones! (........currently, knock on wood)

Whether you are for it or against it, make it a valid argument not a cheap shot at someones misfortune. Bottom line we can all complain about tit one way or another. Ultimately we have NO say in it anyway. The sad truth.

I have two thoughts on this topic. First, if it truly is a safety issue to have pilots retire at age 60, then they need research to back it up. I plan on being healthy and sharp at age 60, as do most of y'all. In today's jargon, 60 is the new 50, 50 the new 40 and all that. People, including pilots, ARE healthier at age 60 than in past generations. Further, I've seen some 55 yr olds on the line that look, walk, talk, and fly like death on a cracker. They could pass for 70. I've also seen a couple 55 year olds that look like they're ready for the UFC.

My old man retired at age 60, and he did NOT want to retire. The financial benefits would've been nice, but that was not his primary motivation. He's been flying since he was 20, and he was in good shape. He actually LIKED hub-turning 4 nights a week. He's adjusted to retirment now, but he about drove himself bat-sh** crazy out of boredom the first year.

Personally, I don't want the rule changed. It'll hose me and my seniority for years to come and significantly delay my opportunity to upgrade to Captain. However, this IS America, and if a dude can work and wants to work, he shouldn't be denied.

The NBA set a minimum age and it was held up in court. Anyone know the legal justification they used?

Pure APA/ALPA Propaganda!

and by the way,

The only FOOL here is the one who calls someone else a FOOL.

As I said in my previous post I am willing to bet I won't want to work past age 60, are you? I will start with all pilots that are one year younger than me and allow them to continue flying until they can no longer pass a real physical. Lots of us might not be able to pass a "real" one.

Maybe we should start with everyone who is 18 and say from this time forward your age group will be allowed to work in the airline industry past age 60 as a pilot. Are you OK with that? I would bet that most 18 year olds would look at you as if you are on drugs. You think they would even care? Plain and simple folks either side will have to sacrifice something. I am willing to defer to an entity who does'nt have a vested interest and let the chips fall where they may. Again I ask, are you?

Why don't all you ALPA folks that support keeping the age 60 rule wait until the courts decide or until you lose a lawsuit and let your dues be the reward?

Oh! and UPSav8tr, Don't call me dude because it gives away your age bias.