Airline Pilot Central Forums - Why Should I vote yes?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1210297)

Dragon, you should vote yes if you'd like to make outsourcing more profitable.

But it gives the company more profit for profit-sharing. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIIGMO (Post 1210292)

Again, I agree with what you are saying. I still want some specifics as to what you think we will gain from turning it down. ( i get it it sends a message and we told them) After that. After 3 years what will you and I have to show for it besides the T-shirt?

I ask, because this is the very question not one no voter has been able to explain. In my mind it is critical to get me to vote no. I will change my vote to a no if anyone can quantify what a no vote will get us in the end.

What has happened to the younger generation? I mean you! There are no guarantees in life. When you started flying, there was no "guarantee" that you would be working for any major airline. You put money in your 401K without any guarantee. You have children and there's no guarantee that they will grow up leading a successful life, etc.

Sometime, there comes a point, that you have to look at yourself in the mirror and ask...."is this the best I can do".

If you are OK with this contract and think YOU have given all you can to get this deal, vote yes. All I am saying is I have been here 22 years and my best years all DAL were the first 3 years.

Then the merger/consolidation cycle started with PanAm and this career at DAL, in terms of QOL and now pay, after BK, has been steadily going down hill.

Do you think this cycle is going to stop? Just look at the NWA/DAL merger....Are there more airplanes, more pilots, UPWARD movement?

This TA keeps the "trend" line in a downwardly direction.....300 permanent jobs lost, higher ALV, working more days......

Yep, 325 76 seat RJ's should raise a huge red flag. If you are basing this "take it know" approach because of the uncertainty of the economy.....This one item should be enough to vote NO.

Because once they are on the property, if DAL re-enters BK, those extra 70 airframes could be the difference between getting furloughed/displaced backward or not.

There's a huge difference between 255 and 325 large RJ airframes. Mark my words....This one Scope item is going to come back and bite us down the road.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eruption (Post 1210264)

It's time for payback....but you have to fight for it.

Good points and good reasons to vote no.....except above.

I've got that little star thingie for the NWA strike, which doesn't even get me coffee anywhere:D

All I got from going on strike was one year shaved off my B Scale, a good thing. Other than that, can and has been debated (sort of like this) by NWA guys ever since. I actually think I took a small pay cut with a new thing that was our version of ALV.

Now about your point of "payback". You will never teach these guys anything. They hate you worse than they hate their ex-wives. Doug Steenland (ex CEO) was on a jumpseat with a good friend and when asked about the around 1 Billion (with a B) spent on our strike he said "it was the best money we ever spent".

Vote NO if you like, I'll never try and talk you out of it (voted NO on our bankruptcy contract). But if you think you are going to get payback, your sadly mistaken and don't know this species of Shark.....they ain't your down home southern species!

Ferd

Quote:

Originally Posted by eruption (Post 1210264)

It's time for payback....but you have to fight for it.

Good points and good reasons to vote no.....except above.

I've got that little star thingie for the NWA strike, which doesn't even get me coffee anywhere:D

All I got from going on strike was one year shaved off my B Scale, a good thing. Other than that, can and has been debated (sort of like this) by NWA guys ever since. I actually think I took a small pay cut with a new thing that was our version of AVL. WORK RULES ARE EVERYTHING!

Now about your point of "payback". You will never teach these guys anything. They hate you worse than they hate their ex-wives. Doug Steenland (ex CEO) was on a jumpseat with a good friend and when asked about the around 1 Billion (with a B) spent on our strike he said "it was the best money we ever spent".

Vote NO if you like, I'll never try and talk you out of it (voted NO on our bankruptcy contract). But if you think you are going to get payback, your sadly mistaken and don't know this species of Shark.....they ain't your down home southern species!

Ferd

I can't argue with a guy that's been through the pain of a strike. I can see why you're voting yes. I however, have yet to experience it, so...but all good comments Ferd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferd149 (Post 1210320)

Good points and good reasons to vote no.....except above.

I've got that little star thingie for the NWA strike, which doesn't even get me coffee anywhere:D

All I got from going on strike was one year shaved off my B Scale, a good thing. Other than that, can and has been debated (sort of like this) by NWA guys ever since. I actually think I took a small pay cut with a new thing that was our version of ALV. WORK RULES ARE EVERYTHING!

Now about your point of "payback". You will never teach these guys anything. They hate you worse than they hate their ex-wives. Doug Steenland (ex CEO) was on a jumpseat with a good friend and when asked about the around 1 Billion (with a B) spent on our strike he said "it was the best money we ever spent".

Vote NO if you like, I'll never try and talk you out of it (voted NO on our bankruptcy contract). But if you think you are going to get payback, your sadly mistaken and don't know this species of Shark.....they ain't your down home southern species!

Ferd

Workrules are everything......And with this TA everyone will be working harder. In a few more contracts, our "workrules" will just be the FAR limit.

As far as going on Strike for a few weeks.....try a few years on furlough and tell me which is harder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon (Post 1210216)

I've seen the reasons to vote no, and I've read the NNPs put out by our sales, I mean bargaining agent so what am I and others on here obviously missing. Please omit the term "Industry Leading" because even the most rabid pro-TA folks have to see it isn't.:eek:

Also, please leave the shrill Saul Alinsky style personal attacks out of this. There have been several no papers out there and they are attacked with statements like "Black Helicopters" and voodoo math.

If you're voting yes because your "union" is telling you to, please just don't both responding. My purpose here is to make sure I haven't missed something before we vote.

Thanks

Answering your post would be pointless because the obvious tone is very telling. No amount of logic will sway your decision because you refer to "voodoo math" and that right there say that you are not interested in factual information. (The math is indisputable by the way.) The furlough protections are very real, very tangible, and very punitive to the company. The recapture of scope is very real, and very tangible. So....

Vote no for whatever "reasons" that you choose and be happy with the results.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eruption (Post 1210330)

Workrules are everything......And with this TA everyone will be working harder. In a few more contracts, our "workrules" will just be the FAR limit.

As far as going on Strike for a few weeks.....try a few years on furlough and tell me which is harder.

Without a doubt, a furlough! But I think you missed my point;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferd149 (Post 1210332)

Without a doubt, a furlough! But I think you missed my point;)

I just thought you were talking work rules/strike.

I think we will be working harder.....300 fewer pilots/higher ALV.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elvis90 (Post 1210325)

I can't argue with a guy that's been through the pain of a strike. I can see why you're voting yes. I however, have yet to experience it, so...but all good comments Ferd.

Thanks man. Appreciate that.

But, my strike history has nothing to do with how I'm voting. As I've said before, I'm thinking this thing ain't going to last three years so I'm willing to hold my nose and see what the rush is (ok over simplification:D).

Ferd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elvis90 (Post 1210325)

I can't argue with a guy that's been through the pain of a strike. I can see why you're voting yes. I however, have yet to experience it, so...but all good comments Ferd.

Neither a Democratic or Republican favored NMB will allow a legacy strike with the current sensitivity of the economy. In the best of conditions it would be highly unlikely and we are a long, long way from a safe economy.

JMHA(dvice), I would not even have that mindset at all if I were in your position.