Plan B?
 

Richard Anderson: " if our pilots turn down the agreement. It is premature to get into the specifics of that plan, but our time and the significant value dedicated to this agreement and re-fleeting will have to be rededicated to the alternative plan. Our relationship with ALPA will continue but the near-term opportunities I mentioned above will be lost and we will no longer be under the same time constraints that were necessary to close this deal."

Sounds like Richard Anderson is saying this is it, take it or we move on without you.

It sounds like he's afraid of DPA. The rest is just tuff talk. :D

Nah, most people think there is NO plan B..........hmmmmm

???????????? What????????

I put a smiley on it. Please read it as the sarcasm it was intended to be.

Of course there is a plan B. Does it guarantee it is a plan that will screw the pilots? No, start taking your paranoia medication.

He's pretty much telling us what could happen. Maybe you should re-read it a few more times. You'll figure it out.

How about a source?

That is ALWAYS the case with negotiations. Our MEC was very clear before this process began: "We will NOT sacrifice quality for expediency". If the early talks do not produce what the pilots have demanded via their surveys, we will revert to the normal section 6 process.

Now all RA has to say is: "Take it or leave it" and our MEC administration folds like cheap lawn furniture? Really?

The biggest problem we'll face going forward is that we'll have PROVEN to RA and Campbell that we are no different than the AirTran pilots. Toss a little fear out there, and we'll voluntarily give up any fight whatsoever. We will be bullied by our executive management for the foreseeable future if we prove to them we'll fold this easily.

Carl

Well Said Carl.

Some of our Pilot group needs to grow a pair and turn down this TA.

The art of negotiation always places a time constraint on the deal.

Agree with all, spot on Carl.

Not sure why everyone thinks Plan B is going to be the end of the world.

I'd be happy to make a drinking man's bet that the B717's are coming regardless of the outcome from this TA.

Richard probably also told them this was the best they could do as well, so there was obviously no more to get.......

Deltanet - Richard Q&A: Midyear Update, 6/22/12

Your CEO tells you in no uncertain terms he will move on and take the money the pilots were going to get and use it for the alternate plan.

All the union negotiators in the room both pilot and professional all say this is it, the company will walk away if we say no.

I am not thrilled with what we got, I wanted more. But I don't cut off my nose to spite my face.

I don't view this as a test of manhood, bravado, etc. It is a business decision.

Capt. Hook

Too funny. What would you expect a CEO to tell you?

"take the money the pilots were going to get..." Yeah, the brilliant CEO is just going to ignore that bill coming due and use it for the alternate plan without acknowledging the fact that at some point the pilots are going to have to be paid. So the brilliant CEO who is to be feared for the gospel that comes from his mouth is also able to convince his employees that he's just going to ignore the reality of having to pay his primary labor force. Got it. Do you realize this flies in the face of the logic that the company wants to settle this concern before it moves forward with its strategic plan? If it's not important to ensure the pilot contract is settled before moving forward then why did they come to us to knock it out sooner rather than later? The logic that they'll just forge ahead without settling this ignores the reality.

Again, you believe everything you're told. What would you expect to hear otherwise? Do you need them to come back with, "You guys really, really, really need to pass this TA, but if you don't we think we can get more like you originally wanted." ???? Seriously, that's what the alternative to what they're saying now. But because they won't and can't say that the truth has to be the opposite which is, "Guys, we did the absolute best that could be done; no one in this world could have done better--we are the best of the best, and therefore you need to pass this because it's impossible to do better than we did."

Frame it however you want so you can live with yourself, but in the end it the company and MEC are playing to your fears that lead pilots to taking the safest and known path. The psychologists on their payroll were a good investment.

I missed your post responding to the guys who jumped all over RA's and Mike Campbell's comments that the TA was "cost neutral".

You believe everything you're told?

This selective listening is bothersome. Please help me smack anybody who swallows anything these guys say. The key is to watch what they DO!

What they DO is - everything possible to prevent more unions from coming on the property. To that end, I predict they will not offer the pilots more in any sort of expedited manner. To do so would empower organizers within the other work groups at Delta to start drives. Organizers will capitalize on the success of rank-and-file union members "standing up" to management. They will counter the anti-union rhetoric from management by pointing out that it was individuals, through their votes, that brought Anderson to his knees and got the pilots a sweeter deal.

For that reason, RA will slow-play us.

Build a straw man...got it.

So where did they do or say anything to support your theory? Missed that part of your reasoning.

Yup, unions and airline managements ALWAYS tell the truth, Always. Changing my vote

+++++++++++717+++++++++++

constructive infringement. youre never allowed to say no to the first offer.

Sort of a mob mentality around here. It looks like we are done with rational discussion and moved on to making a yes vote a sign of personal weakness.

Capt. Hook

Had the MEC followed the proper protocol, it wouldn't have gotten to this point.

The MEC could have redirected the NC, they would have gone back in, fixed the problems, then come back with a TA that more people could have supported.

And no one would have known outside the MEC, the NC and the company negotiators. What the other employee groups think, or that whole dynamic you describe above would never have happened.

Nu

Look how you've framed this in your last few posts: So you either vote yes or you're an angry mob that is not out for a better contract but rather to show testicular fortitude?

I'm not sure what kind of rational discussion you seek, but it seems like it will be hard to have one if that is how you're framing the discussion.

When the company and the union are both pushing for us to vote yes to this TA then everything they say is viewed in the context of "I want you to vote yes".

If someone selling this TA tosses out a red flag about the TA, well, it's understandable why many would elevate that to above the positives being pushed about the TA. Same goes for work rule changes that will eliminate jobs outweighing some of it being made back up elsewhere.

Kind of like if a car salesman tells you "this is the best car you can buy, best in safety, best in quality, best fuel economy in class, best reliability, best manufacturer. But you need to buy the extended warranty. Why? You just need to? Well, I can't say. Okay, there are a lot of problems with the drive train and frame right around 40,000 miles after the warranty ends. Great car, but protect yourself and buy the extended warranty."

What are you going to believe? That this is the best car, or that this car has issues?

Bingo! What does Carl get if this doesn't go through? To stay a 744 Captain. Boo hoo!

RA pretty much stated what would happen, and he didn't sound like "Don't worry guys, if you say no, we'll get back in there the next day and work out a better deal for you." No, he stated this deal took a lot of work to try to create, and even though the relationship with the pilots will remain, a lot will have gone to waste and the next plan will take shape.

ROLL THE DICE......

Posted on L&G, SD's latest threat:

"However, as Richard mentioned in a memo to all Delta employees today, it would be irresponsible for the company to not have an alternative plan prepared and in place to achieve our goals absent this agreement. Without the near-term opportunities provided by the TA, Delta would remain committed to its business plan and continue to distance itself from the competition but time constraints would force us into a different strategy, including slowly reducing small RJ flying as contracts on those aircraft expire."

What if 52% of the survey applicants wanted a 35% raise day 1? How would that have worked? Does that really seem possible? Looking at what happened with the APA and the NMB, I don't think that would have worked. What do you do then? Do another survey saying "tone it down a bit?"

Would a smart management team not have alternate plans?

The timing presents it as a threat. I don't know about you, but when I am threatened, my resolve stiifins.

I do not do tit for tat exchanges. Your paraphrase of my posts is not accurate imo.
I will give you the last word.

I'm sorry to be so blunt about it Hook, but that's exactly what you'll be showing people like Mr. Campbell who was hired specifically for this purpose. A YES vote to something clearly insufficient in so many ways for a pilot group flying for the most profitable airline in the world will tell Mr. Campbell what is clear: A majority of Delta pilots are AFRAID of section 6 negotiations. Your/our future will be slightly different variations of early talks to produce more job sales...under threat of taking you to section 6 if you don't behave.

This is so much bigger than just this TA.

Carl

Yep-too many are hung like a hamster and fold at the first signs of veiled threats.
Btw, Lumberg, don't you think our wise ALPA team also has a plan B?

This is EXACTLY correct. Our process is actually important to all of us. When it's ignored, problems result.

I'm reminded of the place Mr. Obama finds himself now. His health care bill was passed after the election of Scott Brown in Massachussetts via a flouting of the legislative process called "continuing resolution". It removed the newly elected Senator's right to vote on the bill, and it passed by 1 vote. The bill has now been a huge weight on him ever since, and it will very likely be judged as unconstitutional this week...only months before the election. All because the process was subverted.

Processes matter. They can often be cumbersome...but they are there for a reason. When they are ignored for expediency, the resulting unintended consequences are often devastating. My prediction for DALPA is that this single action by the MEC will result in the decertification of DALPA before our next section 6. Maybe not by DPA, but another in-house union drive.

Carl

And a free Lumberger.

Carl

This post illustrates what you so clearly misunderstand. It is NOT the job of the MEC administration to decide for the pilots what is achievable and what is not. This is a bottom-up union structure - and I KNOW you know that. Even if the MEC feels the pilot's survey was BAD for the pilot group, it is their JOB to produce those results. Even if it turns out that the MEC administration is correct and pushing for the survey results was a mistake, it DOES NOT MATTER because the pilot's will would have been done. THAT is the job of the MEC...to execute the will of the pilots through their elected local reps.

Carl

Would not a smart "union" team also have one?

Carl

Yup! Totally obvious and totally amazing that so many can't figure it out.

Sometimes the dealer has a better hand, but you could always go for a 3rd card while holding a pair of nines....go for it....

Yes, the alternate plan for the union is to go back to negotiating, but it could go on a couple more years for less money eventually. Do you really think a strike could ever be in the cards? Rule that out. So, the options are limited, and so was the offer. I think it's a pretty good offer for a 3 year contract though. It gets us in the direction we want to go pay wise, and improvements in many areas.

Well okay then, let's all demand full restoration...........six years later....