The business model is flawed. The way they are running the airline is horrible. Everything is don east to west and all flight hub out of SFO or LAX.

There is so much wrong with the route structure.

They seem to go into saturated markets like L.A. or New York where everyone and their brother already operate with little net profits. I wish them luck but it doesn't look good from a financial standpoint.

And Continental's contract has been a bankruptcy worthy drag on others for the last 25+ years. Every contract cycle I have been through at NWA now Delta they point to cal pay and workrules(or lack there of)

Totally agree.

NK is an entirely different business model with 178 seats in a A320 and 145 in an A319. Lot more seats than their competition on the same plane allows them to sell more seats at a very low ticket price, filling up almost every seat. Plus, I'm sure you're aware of their industry leading onboard and bag charges. 33% of NK revenue is from ancillary fees.

UA has beefed up the competition more this year than any years prior with VA. Also not helping is the fuel cost. Flying a significant amount of transcontinental flying means less room to recover from high gas prices that you could from shorter hops.

VA has continuously expanded year over year with lots of aircraft and markets. Now, for the first time, VA sill slow its growth. They get just 1 airplane in the next 12 months, and are focusing on getting the most out of our destinations and letting markets mature. The upcoming quarters should be better year over year.

And reality sinks in....

The slow/stopped growth was planned ahead of time. The new aircraft order won't start until Fall 2013. One more aircraft comes in March 2013. What they initially planned to do was stop growth for one year so they could announce profits, and then go public IPO. So far they haven't announced a profitable quarter this year, so that IPO timeline will have to be re-set. I don't see why there's a rush to get a IPO launched. Spirit didn't do one until just a couple years ago, and that was after they had been well established for over two decades. Branson is a patient investor, and it seems the American investors are also committed long term, so I don't think the IPO needs to happen within the next year.

Burning through cash while losses continue to widen may have something to do with it.

Says the guy whose company lost a net of 8.4 Billion since 2008.

(Don't get me worng... I think Delta is a strong company, but this is aviation... and Delta did post a huge 2Q loss this year and is at a net loss so far -- yeah, bought a refinery, and while at best guess that's gonna pan out, it's a gamble, just like the rest of this biz).

Last I checked the guidance is several billion in profit for the year with margins around 10%.

Delta has been around over 80 years. They're a little more established then VA. They've also been profitable in their history. VA can say they've had one profitable quarter. Anyone could shut their doors at anytime. I simply answered why VA would want an IPO so soon.

Probably accurate too, just rehashing your last two quarters and year to date... glass houses and all. Raise your hand if your company has been through bankruptcy...?

And Jonhso, I got what your point -- no offense was intended. Just making the point that the top dog in this industry has its ups and downs all the same.

I agree. The mighty can and will always fall at some point. I wish no ill will on VA pilots or VA employees in general. I've never had the pleasure of riding on VA, but I know it's a great product. And while I wish the wages were higher for the pilots, VA certainly isn't the only company that has lower hourly rates. I consider myself extremely fortunate to be where I am, & I don't look down at others for that reason. Everyone is somewhere for some reason.

I don't know if VA will make it or not. Hopefully the halting of deliveries will help turn a profit.

Private company, so they report what they want financially. "Other operating expenses" (other than the 8 already listed) and then "other expense, net" are areas where money is written off. For the 2nd quarter, those two total were $45.75 million. I'm sure a large part of that was paying the investors of the airline.

My buddy that works at VA just told me they are looking for volunteer leaves for the pilots. This would just be the beginning to the end.

I don't think it's unheard of for an airline to ask pilots for voluntary leaves during the "low" season. They have done that at my airline, too, even when we're making lots of money. Not that I think Virgin isn't in big trouble and there may be an ulterior motive, but that in and of itself might not indicate imminent failure IMO.

It will be interesting to see what happens when some decent hiring takes place over the next several months. Will they even be able to keep their pilots? If AMR, UAL/CAL, DAL, US, etc., wanted to shut Virgin down with some targeted hiring, they could if they wanted to be difficult.

No official news of the sort. Could be a buddy just blowing smoke. Or VAPA propoganda. How would your buddy know without it being posted anywhere, no email, no forms, nothing.

I can verify that it's not blowing smoke or VAPA propoganda. I heard directly from the chief pilot's mouth last week that leaves for pilots will be offered in Q1 2013.

However, I do not believe it's the beginning of the end. I think it's a temporary overstaffing situation that every airline encounters at some point. Offering leaves due to overstaffing does not equate to the beginning of the end. I'm no kool-aid drinker by any stretch of the imagination, but I do think we will be ok company wise. I think they are doing things to strengthen the balance sheet and get this ship sailing in the right direction.

If it's true then must be part of the Q1 reduction plan that was discussed at the all hands meeting.... so it would probably just be a leave for the time during Q1

They also offered us leaves back in 2009. Nothing new here people.