jetBlue Age 60 comment
11-05-2006, 11:25 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired 121 pilot
Posts: 1,032
jetBlue Age 60 comment
I got his from a friend of mine, who like me is retired. I assume it's legitimate.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
November 2, 2006
Docket Management Facility
US Department of Transportation 400 Seventh Street, S.W., Nassif Building, Room PL-401 Washington, DC 20590-0001
RE: Age 60 Aviation Rulemaking Committee; Request for comment Docket No. FAA-2006-26139; Notice No. 06-17
To Whom It May Concern:
On behalf of the more than 11,000 Crewmembers of JetBlue Airways, New York's low fare, hometown airline, I respectfully submit these comments pursuant to the notice in the Federal Register dated October 25, 2006 (71 F.R. 62399).
Mandatory commercial pilot retirement at age 60 has been a requirement of the Federal Aviation Administration ("FAA") almost as long as there has been an FAA. In fact the rule allegedly has its origins in a handshake agreement between two ex-military friends, FAA Administrator Pete Ouesada and American Airlines CEO C. R. Smith. The rule was intended to require the early retirement of senior captains that the airline did not wish to train in new jet aircraft. The year was 1959.
In 1959, The Airline Pilot Association ("ALPA") opposed the rule as unfair and discriminatory. However, as time elapsed, and the ALPA membership became statistically younger, this view changed and ALPA has supported a mandatory age 60 retirement for the last 26 years. ALPA's position supporting age 60 retirement has always been based upon the safety argument, which is similar to the FAA's stance: pilots become less physiologically able to fly as they age, and performance declines as a result. Many attempts to overturn the rule through court proceedings, exemptions and legislation have been vigorously opposed by pilot unions and FAA medical and legal staffs and all attempts to date have failed.
In 2004, the effort to pass a new law directing the FAA to extend pilot retirement failed in the Senate by only a few votes. Recently, momentum has grown around S-65, airlines, unions and lawmakers have staked out positions once again.
History:
FAA medical staff has not acknowledged a specific age at which a commercial pilot should be deemed medically unsuitable to continue his or her career. However, the age of 60 has worked well to eliminate age-related accidents, because there is no data available to indicate a later age should be the standard. At the direction of Congress, the AA has sponsored several age-related safety studies in the past decade, with varying degrees of success in analyzing the data available. The main problem is that over-60 commercial flying data is scarce, due to the 47-year ban enforced by the FAA.
The science is not limited to FAA studies. In general, most countries do not mandate retirement at 60, and ICAO studies, encompassing over 15,000 over-60 pilot hours flown, show that the pilots in the above-60 bracket are among the safest of all age groups. Also, for most of the period of large transport age restriction, smaller transports were not so regulated, and these FAR Part 135 pilots were permitted to fly beyond 60, with no alarming safety concerns or occurrences. In addition, pilots of Part 91 and Part 135 corporate aviation aircraft have never had age restrictions imposed by the FAA. In all of the data that is available, nothing has ever identified an age-related safety concern.
Life expectancy has risen dramatically over the past 47 years, and career expectations have grown commensurate with this change. In 1959, a 60 year old male pilot could expect to live another 15 years, whereas in 2005 that expectation is over 20 years. In response to these demographic developments, the US Government has raised the Social Security retirement age to 65 and within the next decade it will rise to 66 and then 67. Medicare benefits begin at age 65. In addition, most airlines have reduced or eliminated fixed-benefit pension plans which were originally designed to carry pilots and their families through the gap between early mandatory retirement and full Federal benefits. So pilots are healthier, live longer, and are faced with diminished earnings opportunities.
The lack of a definitive safety threat, coupled with the social and economic need of pilots to fly longer, have resulted in some interesting recent developments. ALPA has grown to international status, and now represents pilots in Canada. In a recent contract negotiation for Air Canada Jazz pilots, ALPA agreed to allow pilots to fly to age 65. This was done because Canada is among the vast majority of countries that does not limit pilots to age 60. In fact, the US, France and China are the only developed nations that still mandate the age 60 retirement for pilots.
Present:
ICAO, the International Civil Aviation Organization, represents the countries of the world in attempting to standardize aviation regulations. It recently surveyed constituent countries and found a near universal desire to raise the retirement age. On Nov 23, 2006, ICAO plans to implement a standard regulation making 65 the world-wide commercial pilot retirement age. The FAA has responded to the need for other countries to operate with older pilots by permitting foreign pilots over age 60 to operate foreign commercial aircraft into US airports and within US airspace despite the simultaneous ban on similarly situated US pilots.
The most recent effort to change the rule for US pilots has been spearheaded by a group of pilots who formed an organization called APAAD, or Airline Pilots Against Age Discrimination. APAAD has been joined by two airlines, Southwest and JetBlue, and ALPA and APA, the Allied Pilots Association which represents American Airlines pilots. An association representing all FAA flight surgeons has come out in support of repealing the age 60 rule, citing improved health and longevity of airline pilots.
Recently, the following developments have occurred:
> An ALPA survey in the summer of 2005 showed that the union membership was severely split, 55%-45% in favor of retaining the current rule. Interestingly, ALPA distributed statistics on the survey results, showing that by age of the pilot responding, the older a pilot was, the more he was in favor of working past 60.
> Younger pilots were mostly in favor of having older pilots continue to retire at 60.
> ALPA Board of Directors voted to continue to support the age 60 rule, based upon survey results.
> The Senate and House of Representatives have both formed alliances behind influential aviator-legislators and produced bills to force FAA to repeal the age 60 rule. Neither of these bills, HR-65 and S-65, has come up for a floor vote to date.
> The Senate Aviation Subcommittee held hearings and voted out a bill to change the retirement age. The bill simply states that when ICAO changes the retirement age this fall, the FAA has 30 days to bring the US into compliance. All of the proposed bills state that no pilot who has been forced to retire under the old rule has a right to get his or her former job back as a result of the new law. The Senate Subcommittee bill also stipulates that a pilot flying over age 60 must fly with a pilot who is less than 60 years old.
> JetBlue has worked with SWA/SWAPA, as well as APAAD, Congress, and other groups, to promote changing the rule. JetBlue has retired only a few pilots in our brief history, and most of these pilots have remained on the flying list and perform Part 91 (ferry) flights, simulator training and course development for the airline.
2006 is a critical year for this long overdue reform. JetBlue has based its stance on our value structure, which rejects the arbitrary termination of our most talented and experienced crewmembers without any medical or operational foundation. We are a growing, yet still small, airline, and we thrive on the mentoring and counsel of our senior aviators. The five values that guide our airline leads us to the following conclusions regarding the mandatory age 60 retirement:
Safety: There is no safety record or evidence that indicates pilots should stop commercial flying at age 60.
Caring: None of the dozen pilots forced to retire from JetBlue went willingly, nor were they physically or mentally ready to stop flying.
Integrity: We rely on regulations governing aircrew training and evaluation, as well as medical qualification, to certify our pilots for flight. Those pilots who cannot maintain these strict requirements are given every manner of assistance, before giving up flying duties.
Fun: Senior pilots enjoy flying and should not be arbitrarily deprived of their livelihood.
Passion: We are a young airline, and we hire pilots with various experience levels and flight histories. We look to our senior pilots to instill us all with their passion for aviation and customer service. Our company thrives on their passion for excellence.
For these reasons, JetBlue Airways supports the immediate repeal of the age 60 retirement rule. If this takes place, JetBlue intends to offer a return to active flying to all retired pilots who are still medically qualified, and are below the age of 65. Retraining will be provided. Since flying with an under-60 pilot is required, the crew scheduling software will have to be modified to assure full compliance with any new regulatory regime.
Thank you for the opportunity to submit these views for your consideration.
Sincerely,
Robert C. Land
Senior Vice President for Government Affairs and Associate General Counsel
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
November 2, 2006
Docket Management Facility
US Department of Transportation 400 Seventh Street, S.W., Nassif Building, Room PL-401 Washington, DC 20590-0001
RE: Age 60 Aviation Rulemaking Committee; Request for comment Docket No. FAA-2006-26139; Notice No. 06-17
To Whom It May Concern:
On behalf of the more than 11,000 Crewmembers of JetBlue Airways, New York's low fare, hometown airline, I respectfully submit these comments pursuant to the notice in the Federal Register dated October 25, 2006 (71 F.R. 62399).
Mandatory commercial pilot retirement at age 60 has been a requirement of the Federal Aviation Administration ("FAA") almost as long as there has been an FAA. In fact the rule allegedly has its origins in a handshake agreement between two ex-military friends, FAA Administrator Pete Ouesada and American Airlines CEO C. R. Smith. The rule was intended to require the early retirement of senior captains that the airline did not wish to train in new jet aircraft. The year was 1959.
In 1959, The Airline Pilot Association ("ALPA") opposed the rule as unfair and discriminatory. However, as time elapsed, and the ALPA membership became statistically younger, this view changed and ALPA has supported a mandatory age 60 retirement for the last 26 years. ALPA's position supporting age 60 retirement has always been based upon the safety argument, which is similar to the FAA's stance: pilots become less physiologically able to fly as they age, and performance declines as a result. Many attempts to overturn the rule through court proceedings, exemptions and legislation have been vigorously opposed by pilot unions and FAA medical and legal staffs and all attempts to date have failed.
In 2004, the effort to pass a new law directing the FAA to extend pilot retirement failed in the Senate by only a few votes. Recently, momentum has grown around S-65, airlines, unions and lawmakers have staked out positions once again.
History:
FAA medical staff has not acknowledged a specific age at which a commercial pilot should be deemed medically unsuitable to continue his or her career. However, the age of 60 has worked well to eliminate age-related accidents, because there is no data available to indicate a later age should be the standard. At the direction of Congress, the AA has sponsored several age-related safety studies in the past decade, with varying degrees of success in analyzing the data available. The main problem is that over-60 commercial flying data is scarce, due to the 47-year ban enforced by the FAA.
The science is not limited to FAA studies. In general, most countries do not mandate retirement at 60, and ICAO studies, encompassing over 15,000 over-60 pilot hours flown, show that the pilots in the above-60 bracket are among the safest of all age groups. Also, for most of the period of large transport age restriction, smaller transports were not so regulated, and these FAR Part 135 pilots were permitted to fly beyond 60, with no alarming safety concerns or occurrences. In addition, pilots of Part 91 and Part 135 corporate aviation aircraft have never had age restrictions imposed by the FAA. In all of the data that is available, nothing has ever identified an age-related safety concern.
Life expectancy has risen dramatically over the past 47 years, and career expectations have grown commensurate with this change. In 1959, a 60 year old male pilot could expect to live another 15 years, whereas in 2005 that expectation is over 20 years. In response to these demographic developments, the US Government has raised the Social Security retirement age to 65 and within the next decade it will rise to 66 and then 67. Medicare benefits begin at age 65. In addition, most airlines have reduced or eliminated fixed-benefit pension plans which were originally designed to carry pilots and their families through the gap between early mandatory retirement and full Federal benefits. So pilots are healthier, live longer, and are faced with diminished earnings opportunities.
The lack of a definitive safety threat, coupled with the social and economic need of pilots to fly longer, have resulted in some interesting recent developments. ALPA has grown to international status, and now represents pilots in Canada. In a recent contract negotiation for Air Canada Jazz pilots, ALPA agreed to allow pilots to fly to age 65. This was done because Canada is among the vast majority of countries that does not limit pilots to age 60. In fact, the US, France and China are the only developed nations that still mandate the age 60 retirement for pilots.
Present:
ICAO, the International Civil Aviation Organization, represents the countries of the world in attempting to standardize aviation regulations. It recently surveyed constituent countries and found a near universal desire to raise the retirement age. On Nov 23, 2006, ICAO plans to implement a standard regulation making 65 the world-wide commercial pilot retirement age. The FAA has responded to the need for other countries to operate with older pilots by permitting foreign pilots over age 60 to operate foreign commercial aircraft into US airports and within US airspace despite the simultaneous ban on similarly situated US pilots.
The most recent effort to change the rule for US pilots has been spearheaded by a group of pilots who formed an organization called APAAD, or Airline Pilots Against Age Discrimination. APAAD has been joined by two airlines, Southwest and JetBlue, and ALPA and APA, the Allied Pilots Association which represents American Airlines pilots. An association representing all FAA flight surgeons has come out in support of repealing the age 60 rule, citing improved health and longevity of airline pilots.
Recently, the following developments have occurred:
> An ALPA survey in the summer of 2005 showed that the union membership was severely split, 55%-45% in favor of retaining the current rule. Interestingly, ALPA distributed statistics on the survey results, showing that by age of the pilot responding, the older a pilot was, the more he was in favor of working past 60.
> Younger pilots were mostly in favor of having older pilots continue to retire at 60.
> ALPA Board of Directors voted to continue to support the age 60 rule, based upon survey results.
> The Senate and House of Representatives have both formed alliances behind influential aviator-legislators and produced bills to force FAA to repeal the age 60 rule. Neither of these bills, HR-65 and S-65, has come up for a floor vote to date.
> The Senate Aviation Subcommittee held hearings and voted out a bill to change the retirement age. The bill simply states that when ICAO changes the retirement age this fall, the FAA has 30 days to bring the US into compliance. All of the proposed bills state that no pilot who has been forced to retire under the old rule has a right to get his or her former job back as a result of the new law. The Senate Subcommittee bill also stipulates that a pilot flying over age 60 must fly with a pilot who is less than 60 years old.
> JetBlue has worked with SWA/SWAPA, as well as APAAD, Congress, and other groups, to promote changing the rule. JetBlue has retired only a few pilots in our brief history, and most of these pilots have remained on the flying list and perform Part 91 (ferry) flights, simulator training and course development for the airline.
2006 is a critical year for this long overdue reform. JetBlue has based its stance on our value structure, which rejects the arbitrary termination of our most talented and experienced crewmembers without any medical or operational foundation. We are a growing, yet still small, airline, and we thrive on the mentoring and counsel of our senior aviators. The five values that guide our airline leads us to the following conclusions regarding the mandatory age 60 retirement:
Safety: There is no safety record or evidence that indicates pilots should stop commercial flying at age 60.
Caring: None of the dozen pilots forced to retire from JetBlue went willingly, nor were they physically or mentally ready to stop flying.
Integrity: We rely on regulations governing aircrew training and evaluation, as well as medical qualification, to certify our pilots for flight. Those pilots who cannot maintain these strict requirements are given every manner of assistance, before giving up flying duties.
Fun: Senior pilots enjoy flying and should not be arbitrarily deprived of their livelihood.
Passion: We are a young airline, and we hire pilots with various experience levels and flight histories. We look to our senior pilots to instill us all with their passion for aviation and customer service. Our company thrives on their passion for excellence.
For these reasons, JetBlue Airways supports the immediate repeal of the age 60 retirement rule. If this takes place, JetBlue intends to offer a return to active flying to all retired pilots who are still medically qualified, and are below the age of 65. Retraining will be provided. Since flying with an under-60 pilot is required, the crew scheduling software will have to be modified to assure full compliance with any new regulatory regime.
Thank you for the opportunity to submit these views for your consideration.
Sincerely,
Robert C. Land
Senior Vice President for Government Affairs and Associate General Counsel
11-05-2006, 01:57 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: FDX MD11 Capt in MEM
Posts: 885
For these reasons, JetBlue Airways supports the immediate repeal of the age 60 retirement rule. If this takes place, JetBlue intends to offer a return to active flying to all retired pilots who are still medically qualified, and are below the age of 65. Retraining will be provided. Since flying with an under-60 pilot is required, the crew scheduling software will have to be modified to assure full compliance with any new regulatory regime.
They don't have one.
11-05-2006, 01:57 PM
#4
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by fireman0174
I got his from a friend of mine, who like me is retired. I assume it's legitimate.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
For these reasons, JetBlue Airways supports the immediate repeal of the age 60 retirement rule. If this takes place, JetBlue intends to offer a return to active flying to all retired pilots who are still medically qualified, and are below the age of 65. Retraining will be provided. Since flying with an under-60 pilot is required, the crew scheduling software will have to be modified to assure full compliance with any new regulatory regime.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
For these reasons, JetBlue Airways supports the immediate repeal of the age 60 retirement rule. If this takes place, JetBlue intends to offer a return to active flying to all retired pilots who are still medically qualified, and are below the age of 65. Retraining will be provided. Since flying with an under-60 pilot is required, the crew scheduling software will have to be modified to assure full compliance with any new regulatory regime.
If you don’t like the scam the senior guys are trying to pull – write the FAA and your congressman. Time is running out.
AA767AV8TOR
11-05-2006, 04:56 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
Originally Posted by AA767AV8TOR
For all you junior guys out there, you better look hard at what raising the age will do to your career progression. The guys in the age 60-65 age bracket are fully intending to come back and take your jobs.
If you don’t like the scam the senior guys are trying to pull – write the FAA and your congressman. Time is running out.
AA767AV8TOR
If you don’t like the scam the senior guys are trying to pull – write the FAA and your congressman. Time is running out.
AA767AV8TOR
11-05-2006, 05:37 PM
#8
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Originally Posted by AA767AV8TOR
For all you junior guys out there, you better look hard at what raising the age will do to your career progression. The guys in the age 60-65 age bracket are fully intending to come back and take your jobs.
If you don’t like the scam the senior guys are trying to pull – write the FAA and your congressman. Time is running out.
AA767AV8TOR
If you don’t like the scam the senior guys are trying to pull – write the FAA and your congressman. Time is running out.
AA767AV8TOR
There is still some integrity in any position I could hold. I'd feel better knowing I earned my position through hard work, not because someone more experienced than I was pushed out. I say this because A) I'd have much to gain from their years of experience and B) One day I'll be 60 and still clinging to the yolk. Let them completely remove it for all I care. My day will come. Those that are there have earned it and shouldn't have it taken away from them. I don't think anyone could legally be terminated that is already there. Just not hiring any new guys for the time being. Maybe get rid of the 600hr pilots flying for commuters like Colgan ect.
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