Is the PIC requirement a thing of the past?
 

Seems like a lot of the Majors have dropped the PIC requirement. Delta dropped theirs, USAir, Spirit, Virgin.

The age old advice of "Just go to a regional, get your PIC, and get out" seems like it's become outdated. Looks like we can advice new people to the industry to go a a regional that has good pay and benefits, just build their time in the right seat, then get out.

Delta never had a turbine PIC requirement. It doesn't change the fact that you are far more likely to get an interview with TPIC time.

The reason the mins are so low for many places has to do with getting the chief pilot's son, interns, etc in the front door faster than some who have slogged it out at the regionals for a decade to get 1000 TPIC.

If you arent one of the above then you better get 1000 TPIC if you plan on getting hired at the beginning of a hiring wave. Zero PIC candidates will become furlough fodder when they are hired at the end of the wave.

5,000 hours in the right seat at a regional must be worth something.....

I was hired in the beginning of the wave... even those that were interns and pilots kids/wives had over 1000 tpic. There was only one intercompany transfer that didn't have any tpic.

The low time requirements are to help out our military guys too. They don't fly 90 hours a month so after their career its the best way to give them a shot.

Just curios, but of those demographics that were hired summer summer 2010, how'd those numbers look?

That's a given and never been in dispute. Hence the conversion factors, etc.

But we can't give someone with 7000 hours in the right seat at Comair or Horizon a "shot" right?....Bull$hit.

If you couldn't get your PIC time before fulfilling your obligation in the military, tough. Go to a regional like everyone else and pay your dues. Someone flying for a brand should have a path to that brand before a military pilot, especially one without PIC time.

Uhhhhh ohhhhh, that train is NEVER late.

Let the boring/old/stale/worn out mil vs. civ peeing contest based on ignorance (BOTH sides) ensue.

People with high time right seat are being given a chance much more now than in earlier times. Try improving your attitude and respect those who serve as well.

There was a small group hired in 2010 and I'm not sure about the data. I do know it was primarily RJ captains and flows with some military and high time regional FOs.

I disagree. A military pilot has more than paid their dues. Months away from home, flying in hostile territories, protecting our freedom...enough said.

Absolutely! Whether it is the 1500 TT for the ATP or any particular part of the requirements - if you don't have it leaving the military - find it.

On this point you couldn't be more wrong.
Anyone who has served their country for any amount of time honorably has paid more dues than 99.5% of the rest of Americans.

USMCFLYR

At carriers that DON'T have a pic requirement. In a feeble attempt to keep the thread on track, I seriously doubt the carriers that currently have it will abolish it. Despite the impending "pilot shortage".

Contray to popular belief, the leading LCC carrier and freight carrier never had a problem filling spots pre 9/11. They also didn't have their "place to be/holy grail status" at that time either.

I've ALWAYS thought they're good jobs, but if you took a poll the general pilot populace back then, many didn't see it that way.

If a guy in the crew room just mentioned he had a class date at either the usual dipsh1t ignorant response was either "you know DAL/UAL/AA/USair is hiring, right?" or "what's the matter, screw up your interview at DAL/UAL/AA/USair?"

Agree 100%!!!!!!!

But the overall pilot mentality (regardless of background) of "I paid my dues doing (insert whatever here) so I'm entitled to a job" is something that seriously needs to go.

Amen! And not one chance at an upgrade opportunity.

I don't get it? MOST of the airlines don't have a TPIC requirement. The one's that do, SWA and FedEx probably won't ever get ride of it, that's fine. Not everyone wants to fly for SWA or FedEx.

I think the majority of the people out there would rather go to the DAL/UAL/USA/AA/B6/etcetc than the above.

What??? You just completely contradicted yourself.

Just because I don't think certain military pilots should be given preferential hiring doesn't mean I don't respect those who serve.

I recently had a Delta captain (ex-Marine pilot) tell me he didn't know what an ILS was when he was hired at Delta. This $hit has got to stop.

Industry average - about 35K year?

"Sorry, just couldn't help myself - door was wide open."

I flew with a military pilot that went on and on about "going to the academy"... I'm sitting there thinking "yeah you and every other pilot around here, you think you're so special with your $100k flight training... well let me tell you something, anyone who went to some fancy aviation school, they just act like pricks afterwards"

So, I'm totally with ya man, they don't deserve it.

Fixed. |

....can't.... stop......laughing.....


http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...48/742/d62.gif

So you can push a few buttons and swing gear, and you are really patient waiting for upgrade. Congratulations. I picture this guy:

http://www.slangstrong.com/wp-conten...f-Warcraft.jpg

Thank god for UAVs, they'll have this military pilot thing fixed up soon.

Not really... I know quite a few that don't want to fly night cargo or a 737 for the rest of their career.

I would! But not everyone's cup of tea. :D

"Former Marine" if he left on good terms - but that is semantics.
It is said somewhat tongue in cheek.
Naval Tactical aviation didn't shoot ILSs back in this guy's day.
So what....he probably flew ACLSs which is practically the same thing. I'm betting that by the time he finished his first sim session that he was just fine.
I hadn't seen an ILS, VOR, or NDB in nearly 20 years too and somehow I made it through training.

The military has produced, and will continue to produce, good and great pilots. They have operated aircraft in all climes and conditions and throughout much of the envelope. Basic piloting skills are usually pretty good. The airlines like this standard of training. I'm not sure there is necessarily any 'preferential' hiring like you are imagining. They go through the same interview process that the civilians do correct? If I remember the demographics correctly - the percentage of military pilots in the airlines has generally been shrinking has it not? I'm sure some internet warrior can come up with a graph for that stat.

Ah darn....I thought someone was really that ill-informed but I got intel that it was an insider joke.
Sorry I missed it!

USMCFLYR

True, but it would be foolish to assume that it doesn't carry a premium

To each their own. What one wants/desires out of this career will NEVER be uniform. But I'll bet if you asked ANYBODY that went to FX/SW pre 9/11, they don't regret their choice. And those that did go, but jumped ship, especially to UAL probably do have some regret.

But that's fine, DON'T apply to FX or SWA and stay the hell out of the way of those that do want to work there.

No, I didn't. I simply agreed that service members have paid their dues.

Military will ALWAYS have a preference. Always been that way, always gonna be that way. Get used to it. But here's a little tidbit/morsel/nugget of information for you to chew on. New hire classed at (insert airline here) have had pretty much a 50/50 breakdown of backgrounds. Shocking!!!!!!

Ohhhh boy. I'll let USMC deal with this one. Not just because he's a Marine, but he knows more than you can possibly fathom about military aircraft, they're equipment, etc etc etc. Neverming the fact that your alleged DAL CA came from a different time period/era.

I can see two sides to that military pilot paying their dues thing. We are all thankful for what they have done and feel like they have paid their dues....... to their COUNTRY.

So if I worked as a Dr. for many years and saved lots of lives and dedicated my time to medicine and such (paying my dues) would I have preferential hiring at an airline? I paid my dues to something. Doesn't make me a better pilot than anyone else though.

I don't think it has anything to do with paying your dues so much as a traditional bortherhood of buddies helping buddies with that ole fraternity-free masons kind of treatment. It's a loophole to the usual hiring process.

I can see how guys working very hard to try and reach their goals to only be ignored due to this culture of hiring might be annoyed and frustrated.

I can also see why an airline would acknowledge that someone who could serve their country with such courage would bring a lot more to their company than just flying skills.

Instead of the stupid military/civilian argument...again... let's get this back on track to the PIC requirement a thing of the past.

More to the point... what airlines actually require TPIC? I think it is only FDX and WN....

It has nothing to do with serving your country. It has to do with the fact that military pilot selection, training, and evaluation is vastly superior to anything on the civilian side. Orders of magnitude better.

You take the best of the best aptitude-wise, give them the best training in the world, and constantly hold them to high standards. Airlines have determined this to be an acceptable substitute for hours in a logbook.


I've flown with military pilots who had less than 1000 hours who could fly circles around essentially any civilian pilot. Anyone who thinks that they're better than a military pilot because they have more hours is greatly mistaken.

Ok, if you say so.

UPS? and I think Alaska requires 750.

Its not me saying so. Its all the airlines that hire military pilots with much less flight time than civilian pilots saying so... in black and white.

and asian....and hispanic...and probably some other races, too.

Yep, but UPS didn't go to 1000 till after 9/11.

Before that it was 500 IIRC.

I'm a civilian but I trained both military and civilian pilots in my CFI days. Did I have excellent civilian students? Yes, every once in a while. Did I have excellent military students? Yes, every time.

What amazes me is when people make ill-advised comments on PUBLIC forums assuming them to be ANONYMOUS --- especially this board since they do not allow free email accounts to sign up.