So I guess the last question I have is why cant carriers use Flag operations for flights between places like JFK-LAX?

My guess is that you probably could augment the crews if you got the Ops Spec for it. It's likely just cheaper for them to build unproductive trips than carry extra crew.

Example: Let's say an extra crewmember costs $100/hr for a transcon. turn. That's roughly $1100 give or take. What does it cost to keep it at a crew of 2 and pay for their hotel room and per diem - maybe $500?

Crews lose out on QOL, but it saves companies money in this type of scenario, in my opinion. Plus I believe you'd have type the FO's if you wanted to do any kind of FO/FO crew relief. Not a big deal, but more work (read: more money).

You can operate a 3 person crew domestically beyond 8 hours if you're Jetblue.

I definitely agree, but I was thinking as it stands now we need 2 crews (CA/FO + CA/FO) for the trip. If it was augmented it could be a 3-pilot crew CA/FO/FO and avoid hiring another person. Not having to pay the initial training costs, and expense of employee benefits, as well as not having to pay another CA for the trip. Who knows.

FWIW, the regional carrier I used to fly for is giving PIC types to all FOs because the company expects the FAA to require PIC types as part of the new training/experience regulations.

Good point.

It will be interesting to see the differences in trip construction once the new duty/flight time/rest rules go into effect. In the end, the more pilots, the merrier!

Perhaps because "Flag" means International and JFK-LAX is within the 48 states.

GF

You have lost me on this one. Say you have a trip that is JFK-LAX-JFK. A three person crew might be able to do both legs in a turn so it takes 3 pilots to fly both legs. The two pilot crew does the trip in two days with 2 pilots. What am I missing?

Denny

Well we fly "Domestic" rules to several destinations that sure as hell arent in the 48 states. I didnt know if Flag rules could be applied to routes that are within the US.

Right, but each day the aircraft is going JFK-LAX-JFK. The same 3 man crew could operate that turn on both days, doing the work it would normally take 4 pilots.

I will take a side bet on those "new FAR rules" from the FAA being delayed instead of implemented in January 2014 due to a myriad of reasons. Airlines crying they can't hire enough pilots, or it will cost them too much, or the general vacuum left at the regionals as pilots get hired up to majors and the FAA cites safety reasons.

Trying not to be a Negative Nancy, just stating the obvious.