For those of you who don't know
12-31-2012 | 07:07 AM
#11
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
Actually, I think you have to go back to the original post, and the point being made about Delta "putting a gun to the heads" of the Pinnacle pilots. Delta did this because in this case, it needed to, and because it can.
The relationship between the two airlines is not that of independent and equal partners, but a subservient agreement, whereby the regional exists as a scope exception, and is allowed to defy the laws of economics for a while, because it suits the master. At some point, the master's interest shifts, and it becomes convenient to dump an entire regional, or several, or to squeeze one through CH11. In the process, this master might suddenly drop the benevolent mask, and be revealing as the controlling, and potentially abusive entity they always were. I suppose this might come as a shock to some, who were allowed to frolic a while, under the illusion of freedom (no pun intended, Mesa). Just ask the Independence Air guys when you see one.
This is an ugly industry, and the regionals are to a mainline what an Indian call center is to Dell. If you work for an Indian call center, you make acceptable wages, and you do OK until your call center is cut from the Dell contract, maybe at the exact same time that HP, several airlines, and a bunch if banks cut theirs, and you're still in India.
At that point, if you were interested in a Visa to the States, you'd not argue with Immigration about how you fought the good fight in India. You'd just have to decide whether you want to talk about the visa OR the fight.
That's the nature of it.
The relationship between the two airlines is not that of independent and equal partners, but a subservient agreement, whereby the regional exists as a scope exception, and is allowed to defy the laws of economics for a while, because it suits the master. At some point, the master's interest shifts, and it becomes convenient to dump an entire regional, or several, or to squeeze one through CH11. In the process, this master might suddenly drop the benevolent mask, and be revealing as the controlling, and potentially abusive entity they always were. I suppose this might come as a shock to some, who were allowed to frolic a while, under the illusion of freedom (no pun intended, Mesa). Just ask the Independence Air guys when you see one.
This is an ugly industry, and the regionals are to a mainline what an Indian call center is to Dell. If you work for an Indian call center, you make acceptable wages, and you do OK until your call center is cut from the Dell contract, maybe at the exact same time that HP, several airlines, and a bunch if banks cut theirs, and you're still in India.
At that point, if you were interested in a Visa to the States, you'd not argue with Immigration about how you fought the good fight in India. You'd just have to decide whether you want to talk about the visa OR the fight.
That's the nature of it.
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12-31-2012 | 09:48 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,642
Likes: 0
From: right for a long, long time
Moonshot said it best.
My much less refined response:
It doesn't matter how "brave" your pilot group was, have up to date logbooks, a clean suit (red tie if its a Delta interview) and bring a positive attitude to the interviewers.. Nobody really cares what you were doing before as long as you left on good terms and kept your record mostly clean.
The union doesn't control or have any say in hiring.. That is the purview and responsibility of management.
Good luck, and don't use your vote to "send a message," thibk through the ramifications and the possible resuts 1-3 years from now. It doesn't matter to the managers.... This is purely a business/economic event, use your knowledge and to come to a thoughtful conclusion either in favor or against, and then prepare to continue your career goals.
My much less refined response:
It doesn't matter how "brave" your pilot group was, have up to date logbooks, a clean suit (red tie if its a Delta interview) and bring a positive attitude to the interviewers.. Nobody really cares what you were doing before as long as you left on good terms and kept your record mostly clean.
The union doesn't control or have any say in hiring.. That is the purview and responsibility of management.
Good luck, and don't use your vote to "send a message," thibk through the ramifications and the possible resuts 1-3 years from now. It doesn't matter to the managers.... This is purely a business/economic event, use your knowledge and to come to a thoughtful conclusion either in favor or against, and then prepare to continue your career goals.
12-31-2012 | 10:03 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,823
Likes: 166
From: window seat
Dear Fellow Pilots,
For those of you who don't know, soon a concessionary contract will be put before the rank and file of the Pinnacle pilots. Again for those who don't know, Delta has essentially put a gun to the head of the Pinnacle pilots saying "Take a pay cut or we will shut you down."
I have but one question: If Pinnacle pilots stand tall and refuse to take a pay cut, will those who refused to be part of the race to the bottom be recognized by the pilots involved in the interview process?
I'm not asking for any preferential treatment prior to the interview, nor am I asking that an unqualified guy get the nod. But when one of us appears before your panel, will you give us at least a little more consideration in the interview considering we fought the good fight?
Many of you folks are fighting to take back scope. We in the regionals appreciate that. But if we bite the bullet and draw a line in the sand, will we who try to hold the line on sinking wages get at least a bit of support when we appear in front of fellow pilots in interviews?
How you answer will not affect my "no to pay cuts" vote. I am too old to go back to sitting FO reserve even at a mainline (I am bound to go back to 135 work if the company folds). But it will affect many folks younger than I.
I ask you to declare your support, and give the young folks another reason to say no to pay cuts.
Respectfully,
John Hickman, Colgan Saab 340 CA soon to be Pinnacle 200 FO
For those of you who don't know, soon a concessionary contract will be put before the rank and file of the Pinnacle pilots. Again for those who don't know, Delta has essentially put a gun to the head of the Pinnacle pilots saying "Take a pay cut or we will shut you down."
I have but one question: If Pinnacle pilots stand tall and refuse to take a pay cut, will those who refused to be part of the race to the bottom be recognized by the pilots involved in the interview process?
I'm not asking for any preferential treatment prior to the interview, nor am I asking that an unqualified guy get the nod. But when one of us appears before your panel, will you give us at least a little more consideration in the interview considering we fought the good fight?
Many of you folks are fighting to take back scope. We in the regionals appreciate that. But if we bite the bullet and draw a line in the sand, will we who try to hold the line on sinking wages get at least a bit of support when we appear in front of fellow pilots in interviews?
How you answer will not affect my "no to pay cuts" vote. I am too old to go back to sitting FO reserve even at a mainline (I am bound to go back to 135 work if the company folds). But it will affect many folks younger than I.
I ask you to declare your support, and give the young folks another reason to say no to pay cuts.
Respectfully,
John Hickman, Colgan Saab 340 CA soon to be Pinnacle 200 FO
Also HR has no idea how you voted or where you stood and odds are extremely slim that they ask. To anyone in an interview, a previous employer is just another part of one's job history. No one will care unless you bring it up and force them to dig into the issue.
If there is any preference, it will most likely be indirect and impossible to ever prove. In the case of Pinnacle, everyone there will be able to check the current or former DCI pilot box on the app, which itself gives some weightning to the application, not sure how much though.
If Pinnacle does end up shutting down, of if one is furloughed from there, keep doing your best to stay current and employed and "manage your career" to the best of one's ability. Come interview time that will far outweigh any negative bias stemming from a concessions vote, if there is any, which I doubt there would ever be anyway. Its just business, and they know that.
12-31-2012 | 10:03 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,047
Likes: 0
From: B6
Classic case of ALPA eating ALPA? This is where there is a massive conflict of interest within ALPA. Kind of like what the concussed (5-1) starter Alex Smith got when he returned....to the bench?? Amazing to watch professionals fight in the same ALPA sand box.........
12-31-2012 | 01:14 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 687
Likes: 0
Actually, I think you have to go back to the original post, and the point being made about Delta "putting a gun to the heads" of the Pinnacle pilots. Delta did this because in this case, it needed to, and because it can.
The relationship between the two airlines is not that of independent and equal partners, but a subservient agreement, whereby the regional exists as a scope exception, and is allowed to defy the laws of economics for a while, because it suits the master. At some point, the master's interest shifts, and it becomes convenient to dump an entire regional, or several, or to squeeze one through CH11. In the process, this master might suddenly drop the benevolent mask, and be revealing as the controlling, and potentially abusive entity they always were. I suppose this might come as a shock to some, who were allowed to frolic a while, under the illusion of freedom (no pun intended, Mesa). Just ask the Independence Air guys when you see one.
This is an ugly industry, and the regionals are to a mainline what an Indian call center is to Dell. If you work for an Indian call center, you make acceptable wages, and you do OK until your call center is cut from the Dell contract, maybe at the exact same time that HP, several airlines, and a bunch if banks cut theirs, and you're still in India.
At that point, if you were interested in a Visa to the States, you'd not argue with Immigration about how you fought the good fight in India. You'd just have to decide whether you want to talk about the visa OR the fight.
That's the nature of it.
The relationship between the two airlines is not that of independent and equal partners, but a subservient agreement, whereby the regional exists as a scope exception, and is allowed to defy the laws of economics for a while, because it suits the master. At some point, the master's interest shifts, and it becomes convenient to dump an entire regional, or several, or to squeeze one through CH11. In the process, this master might suddenly drop the benevolent mask, and be revealing as the controlling, and potentially abusive entity they always were. I suppose this might come as a shock to some, who were allowed to frolic a while, under the illusion of freedom (no pun intended, Mesa). Just ask the Independence Air guys when you see one.
This is an ugly industry, and the regionals are to a mainline what an Indian call center is to Dell. If you work for an Indian call center, you make acceptable wages, and you do OK until your call center is cut from the Dell contract, maybe at the exact same time that HP, several airlines, and a bunch if banks cut theirs, and you're still in India.
At that point, if you were interested in a Visa to the States, you'd not argue with Immigration about how you fought the good fight in India. You'd just have to decide whether you want to talk about the visa OR the fight.
That's the nature of it.
12-31-2012 | 01:43 PM
#19
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
