Interesting. Thanks for your continued investigation into this. Usually, we start most issues on APC by going completely ape-[deleted], and as the facts catch up, most of the conspiracies theories die. This was especially true when the DPA effort was in full swing, because they'd latch on to anything. But that doesn't mean every conspiracy is a theory.

Based on this thread, I enquired with my rep. Sounds as if the information is still being developed by the MEC, so I have nothing useful to paraphrase.

So far, I jumped at the idea of preferential hiring, but that doesn't seem to be happening, and I'm not certain that this deal is conceptually very different from the deals with other carriers, where flying is promised against concessions. The areas that I'm still curious about are 1) whether our MEC was taken for granted, 2) whether meet-and-confer is a one-way street, and therefore a procedure that needs to be dumped anyway, and 3) whether the commitment and sunset provisions really have any weight. As for item 3, it should be discussed elsewhere, anyway.

I'm not completely sure this issue is going to get up high on my radar screen, but again, I think we want to make sure that there is no confusion between Delta and ALPA as to who they deal with, when it comes to flying, not -let me pull an example out of thin air- the Virgin Atlantic pilots.

 

...and I really, really think it's an abomination that our own forum is such a cesspool, that we're out here, having these discussions in public.

You guys read much from the American pilots on APC? I don't either. And they're thick in the middle of a CH11. The APC server should be frying over their conversation alone.

 

Reasonable enough.

Lawson was trying to get three way negotiations with the Delta MEC to save his airline. ALPA said no.

Ten years later Wychor simply blows off the Delta MEC, our Constitution and Admin manual and ALPA says, fine.

Paint the pilots' involvement however you want. I do not see them clamoring to replace Wychor and arguably he has done a good job for the guys he represents.

Wychor's actions imperil the future of our union, but as our representational relevance as slipped perhaps we are comfortable in our new role as one of several groups of pilots who perform Delta flying.ne.

 

Giving Wychor a hard time isn't right. He's just doing his job representing his pilots. An argument could be made that the President or the Executive Council need to look at the problems that this agreement creates for collective bargaining at Delta, but that's not Wychor's fault. He did his job. And as far as the Admin Manual or C&BL, there is still no clear violation of anything. At best, there is an interpretation issue, which is where the Executive Council would need to get involved. But claiming that policies have been clearly violated is just not true.

 

You realize, I'm sure, that we do not directly elect MEC level reps. ALPA politics takes care of that.

Take for example, our ousting on CS as LEC CA Rep in DTW. Somehow our new reps voted in CS as MEC president.

 

Can you name a single time an express carrier has been able to bind a mainline carrier directly, without the involvement of the mainline pilots? A single example?

Now, can you cite all of the lawsuits which ALPA has defended on this same issue?

Do you believe the difference is a matter of interpretation?

In any event, you are correct that this policy change needs to be taken up by our Executive Council.

 

JSH,

While we may have had occasional differences of opinion I respect the PCL pilot group's stand during their last contract negotiations. They did the right thing for themselves and all the rest of us.

That has now exploded in your face, because the game is rigged. For what it's worth, at this point I personally wouldn't hold it against any of you if you do what you have to do in order to take care of your families, if that's even still possible. At some point the "career" is no longer worth it...if it came to that I would burn the place down and go get a real job.

R

 

Of course, I'm sure we agree I wasn't discussing Wychor at all. Only Lawson.

 

Your point is well taken, but ultimately, you can't hide behind the notion that the person representing you isn't representative, not over a long period of time.

I'm not sure who CS is, but as far as I'm concerned, Lawson spoke for the Comair pilots, because that was his job, and that's the end of the story. It's a very small tangent to the discussion, anyway.

 

I don't know how much Wychor had to do with it, word over here is we(9E) were going out of business until Moak stepped in and convinced Delta otherwise.