Will the US Air MOU pass?
 

I read the the MOU and while it may not be the greatest thing in the world it has enough in it for me to vote yes.
Additionally, I understand that whether the pilots vote this MOU in or not the merger will happen and the items included will be our contract in the near future. We will just miss out on the "signing bonus" and retro pay back to February 08 from the effective date.
I'm now amazed at the number of US Air pilots who are voting no "just because".
From no real reason to the absurd assumptions, pilots are voting no.
No road show and no investigation into the document, just no.
I have real reservations now whether this MOU will pass.

Why does the east shortsightedness and ineptness surprise you? They don't just hand out permanent injunctions to just anyone you know.

I think is all talk to please your buds. When your sitting I front of that computer knowing the financial benefits coming to you if this thing passes and you only have 10 years to go, your vote will change pretty quick. I had one guy tell me if he didn't get a 100k bonus he was going to vote NO, come on let's be realistic.

If you believe crew room gossip and internet forum chatter, then no MOU or TA will ever pass.

To recap, for example:
The Delta TA was never going to pass.
The AA TA was going to be voted down by a huge margin.
There's no way the UA/CO TA was ever going to be voted in.
The Pinnacle TA was going to fail miserably.

I see it passing with at least 75% total from both sides.

Agreed. My bet is that the yes vote is around 80%

Could someone explain this MOU in a little more detail? Is this the same as a TA on a new contract? Would this unify east and west? How does this fit with the merger and a unified AA/US pilot group? If this is like a a TA, is it at all similar to what United just signed? Sorry for the basic questions but its all a little confusing from the outside!

Apparently there is a significant vote "no" campaign by the beasties, they believe they will get a bigger raise because coc might be triggered if they vote this down.

The one guy I've personally talked to that is voting no is a west guy. You and cacti really need some therapy.

The east people I talk to all like it. One in the hand is worth two in the bush. People are excited once they run some numbers. Even if change of control was higher pay it could be years before it actually gets implemented. Restored vacation, higher pay and retirement...

The clt reps don't agree and are campaigning for a "no" vote.

99% on the west side, I promise you that. That one "no" guy is the one percenter.. :p

Are there things in the MOU I don't like? Heck yeah, but we are parked with an injunction and two thirds of our pilots are under a bankruptcy contract.

Could the east vote no? It frankly wouldn't surprise me. They voted out ALPA trying to get rid of binding arbitration and succeeded at putting the NIC in reinforced concrete. Would they vote down the MOU so they can spend another year+ on LOA93 and gain nothing? We'll see.

G

I cant wait to be the 190 feed for American, working under the worst 190 pay rates ever, all so I can say I am an American pilot, sort of. I cant wait to vote yes.

Yea yea I know, just because the MOU says the company "may" go after a single certificate, and that a JCBA "if any" will be negotiated, doesn't mean that they will do that.

That language is just a mistake, or maybe a simple oversight, management loves us and they have always taken care of us. Nothing to see here, don't worry about the actual language, just concentrate on the pay rates other than the 190. Times will be great just ask the TWA pilots, nothin but love here.
PSST hey West pilots, I think I heard an East pilot say they dont like this MOU, you should show them and support it..

Love Doug

Almost everyone at Airways will be flying feed for American. US Airways is still at heart a regional airline. Look at the route maps.

Says the guy flying the Mad Dog.

Where does American go in Europe?

http://www.airreview.com/USAirways/U...Map-Europe.gif

I attended the first road show. During the Q&A time I heard only one serious opposition by a pilot who was 62 years old. He was frustrated that he was going to be out before the higher rates took effect. I will be surprised if it doesn't pass.

DP really doesn't feel he has to honor any of the contract language that ALPA left us with in LOA 93 and the BR contract. USAPA road show was very skeptical that he would honor COC if the MOU doesn't pass.

I imagine so, that wasn't the point I was trying to make.

LOA 93 passed.



This will pass. im in the pool at 73% yes vote

Do you seriously believe that Dug (that's how we spell it out west) won't push for single certificate? And nail down a JCBA? Everything in this is totally geared to one airline in as short a period as possible. 24 months from POR, that's the latest before single ops. The MOU was nailed down with the APA for just this reason, he does not want anything other than one list and one contract. The APA, as well, has no interest is being whipsawed. Remember, the LCC pilots passing this MOU is immaterial to the merger. The big dog is APA and the big dog gets to ride in the front seat. It doesn't matter whether we want to ride or not, if we don't we still get tossed in the back and get our ride to the vet's to get neutered.

If he really wanted a single certificate he would not have said "may" when concerning getting one. Or a JCBA "if any". too many loopholes, and both sides of the Mississippi know to well what they do with those.

I do agree with you that Dug, (i like it) wants a single list and a single pay scale. What I am thinking, and is allowed for under the MOU is multiple companies. Like AT and SW now, and Metrojet and USAir.

Giving USAPA a vote in the MOU is like handing a kid a Fisher Price tool kit and having him describe how he plans to knock out a load bearing wall and open up the living room! Cute, isn't it?

Well, that certainly could happen but everyone I talk to, including some management connections, says no. They want one list for everyone to minimize costs and provide the most flexibility in moving planes and people to where they can be deployed most efficiently. We will see what happens if the AMR board decides to play ball with Parker.

Added emphasis for you

This update addresses the Change of Control (COC) provision of the US Airways East/LOA 93 contract –and specifically how it compares economically to the proposed MOU approved by the Board of Pilot Representatives.

The COC provision was designed to ensure that US Airways management deals with your union concerning major transactions such as the potential merger with American Airlines. While COC applies to some US Airways East Pilots, we were able to use it to negotiate an MOU with significant economic gains for all US Airways pilots.

Our cost estimates show that the economic values received by all US Airways pilots from the MOU exceed what only some would receive from a successfully executed grievance triggered by a Change of Control.

If the MOU is ratified and the merger is approved, all US Airways pilots will begin receiving the new MOU pay rates as of the date of the POR (estimated to be July 1, 2013) and an increase in pension contributions to 14%. In addition, all US Airways pilots will receive the new MOU pay rates retrospectively back to the date of ratification (February 8). On January 1, 2014, the pay rates increase by 8% and the pension contribution increases to 16%. All US Airways pilots will also share a $40 million lump sum payment. The MOU establishes all pilots as equal for compensation and working conditions at the POR, which will allow for the best outcome for seniority integration.
If the MOU is NOT ratified and the merger moves forward, USAPA would most probably file a grievance for the COC Scope provisions in our contract. If successful with the COC grievance, only some US Airways pilots would accrue snap back wages as of the date of the POR, since the COC provision does not apply to E-190 Pilots or West Pilots.
If this were to happen, and if USAPA is successful in pursuing a COC grievance, then the snap back wages would most likely continue until the new representative of the combined pilot group (probably APA) negotiates a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA). At that time all US Airways pilots would most likely be removed from the snap back wages and provided with the same wages of the APA pilots. Barring a significant change in the industry that would support continuing the COC, those wages would be the wages currently being provided to all US Airways pilots by ratifying the MOU.

According to USAPA’s Merger Counsel, arriving at a seniority integration process with disparity in wage rates may negatively impact the outcome for US Airways pilots.

MOU Timeline

The MOU indicates that the JCBA would be concluded 13-15 months after the POR date:

4 months for a single carrier petition to be filed with the NMB
6-8 months for the NMB to issue a decision,
30 days to negotiate the JCBA
60 days to resolve any disputes in arbitration.
Note:

The COC rates would ONLY apply to EAST Group 2 pilots and above.
EAST E-190 pilots and West Pilots would NOT be included in any COC snap back wages.

The last post left out one option.

If CoC is triggered, the union, at its option, can choose the language above or, can choose to extend the current contract for up to 3 years that would include a 4.5% raise per year. This option would include the 190's.

the 4.5% is on top of book rates for all except the 190. The 190 is 4.5% on top of current rates

The biggest plus in the MOU is that all pilots will be at the same pay rate entering into Mac-Bond. Under the above scenario where does the West fit in?

Doug has said he won't do a deal that triggers change of control. If that's going to go into effect, the deal is off.

I find it amazing that there are pilots against this MOU hoping for CoC instead. This MOU offers more money to the pilot group than COC would, and all that has to be done is have it voted in. CoC is a never going to happen pipe dream that a lot of people are apparently willing to give up real money being offered to them for. I mean, seriously, look at USAPA's track record for winning things. Essentially nonexistent.

It's time to move on. This MOU is a way to do it. Don't vote no until you've at least read the thing or been to a roadshow. Otherwise you're going to be making a big mistake.

Speaking of tools......

Does your commentary apply to the west pilots that helped draft it, particularly KH, big guy in AOL? How about the west pilots that get a vote?

He also ignores the fact that the 3 PHX rep's and their votes have prevented the CLT reps from dominating the BPR.

FWIW, I am not a US Airways pilot, but I have read the MOU pamphlet. This MOU falls well short of United and Delta. For those of you that have not seen it, the pay rates are almost exactly the same as the Jetblue pay rates. The big problem I see is that there is no retro pay or signing bonus to take into account the last 6 years working with no contract. This MOU proves to companies that they can negotiate on their time and maintain status quo until they need a contract for a merger (as is this case). I have heard from a couple pilots that there will have to be a joint contract where they can get further gains. The Delta pilots said the same thing when they voted in a LOA without the NWA pilots. The joint contract ended up being that letter of agreement. There's a pretty good chance that this LOA is the joint contract. I personally would vote no, but I am young and could wait it out to get it done right. This MOU is taking advantage of the pilots. It probably will be better for the older pilots to vote it in vs not voting it in, but that does not make it right.

You don't understand what the MOU is. If we vote it down we just stay at our current wages and hamper the potential merger. If you read the phamplet more carefully it spells out (quite obviously) when the actual contract negotiations are.

Well said, it takes us in the right path we have nothing to lose if the merge tanks the MOU is void. If they merge which most likely will happen we'll start getting pay and work on a better contract after the merge.

Aren't you related to someone at LCC? What leverage do the pilots have? If they don't sign they will be along for the ride as were the west guys after the merger.

I have 2 very close friends on the east and they see this MOU as their only chance to get any raises and An improved contract. No, it's not Delta or United rates but show me a single carrier that has been able to negotiate 50% pay raises in normal contract negotiations.

Doesn't sound like you read it.

"For those of you that have not seen it, the pay rates are almost exactly the same as the Jetblue pay rates"

You have not seen all the payscales nor read all of the MOU.
There are annual increases and a parity on scale with Delta and United provision in 2016.

A lot of people see it that way, but that is not what the MOU is about.

The last 6 years are the result of the seniority food fight. Both sides decided that the gains offered were not worth changing their positions. Parker took advantage of what we handed him. I don't like it, but I doubt there are too many managers that wouldn't do the same.

It's about putting us all on level ground moving forward, not for making up all that has been lost in the past. It's time to move on.

I cant believe there are people out there that think this MOU will do anything other that make Airways a 190 feeder for American.

AA is in bankruptcy and yet they have secured 200K plus equity stake. (According to the AA pilot at yesterdays roadshow) we just made an all time record profit and we settle for 8K give up the only language our POS contract has that has actually held up in court, all for the very vague promise that we might survive the furloughs long enough to fly the 190 so we can feed AA.

I have read the shiny brochure, I have had the sales pitch at a road show twice. Show me oh enlightened one where, anywhere in the MOU it says we will really merge with AA. Maybe you should actually read the MOU for what it says, not what the salesman tell you it says. Then try reading up on what AA is getting out of this, while in bankruptcy.

We are a freaking disgrace.

Here is a rhetorical question, as I know I would never actually get an answer.

Just what would management have to bring to you for you to actually say no?