XDriverX

Maybe you should have a clue about what youre saying before you post and look like a ignorante....
Buffett owns a little operation called "NetJets". Maybe youve heard of it since its the biggest fractional jet operation in the world.
...And why would he want VX when he already has an "airline" (91K of course).
Just trying to point out facts, not start a ****ing match.

MongoPawnInLife

Congratulations on the new payrates; it's nice to see wages going up instead of the other direction.

I've read through this thread and Bocaflyer's posts really got under my skin because he's wrong on so many things that are easily verifiable.

Step 1. Go to Virgin America website.
Step 2. Go to Press Releases.
Step 3. Locate last three quarterly reports.

Virgin America | Press Releases
Virgin America | Press Releases
Virgin America | Press Releases

Step 4. Find Operating Profit/Loss in press release.

First Quarter: $49 million Operating Loss
Second Quarter: $4.078 million Operating Loss
Third Quarter: $15.83 million Operating Profit

Step 5. Do the math

One quarter of operating profit + one quarter of operating loss + one quarter of operating loss = One quarter of operating profits in a row.

OK, they're paying a fortune in interest on a megafortune in loans. That makes them happy from a financial health respect?
VX borrowed $150 million in December 2011, which went directly to cash on hand ($160 million at end of December 2011). VX was at $75 million cash on hand at the end of September 2012.
VX blew through $85 million in cash in 9 months, and had $75 million cash on hand at the end of the last quarterly report. What sane person would be happy about that?

Virgin America lands $150M to bolster cash cushion - San Francisco Business Times

The investors shelled out $150 million last December. Plus there have been several other huge loans in the past.
In the last 9 months, those investors have received $83.557 million.
If that's your definition of getting rich, I'd like to borrow money from you.

VX had an operating loss of $36.837 million for the first three quarters of 2012. Based on the latest numbers, the operation is NOT paying for itself.

No. Cush stated in early 2009 that VX would be profitable in 2010. And he's made public statements about VX being profitable in just about every quarter since.
Virgin America CEO sees good times ahead - SFGate

VX has 52 aircraft. They are due to take delivery of N261VA sometime this month which will bring them to 53 aircraft. Production List Search - Planespotters.net Just Aviation

Huge returns without investing more capital? How do you know what VX's current cash position is? How do you know they haven't gotten more money from investors since Dec 2011?
Do you know how much debt they owe to investors? How do you know an IPO will cover all of the current debt?


Good luck to everyone at VX.

Bolo

MongPawnInLife, great post and you just obliterated BocaFlyer's Coolaid view on how well VX is doing. I do want to see VX pilots and the company do well, but lets keep it real!
Congrats on the pay increase as well.

SUX4U

Damn... I gotta say I am impressed you did your homework and presented facts in a constant volley between those that say VX is profitable and those that disagree.

Sailor

Mongo, walks in Blazzing Saddles style, priceless.

johnso29

The quote used the term "airline". I don't believe NetJets is an airline. NetJets is a fractional ownership company. They sell fractional ownership of private jets. They don't sell tickets. So to be fair, I'd say the quote is accurate.

ShyGuy

The Spirit kool aid drinker chimes in finally


Btw, the huge 1st quarter loss was the botched Sabre switchover. Some heads rolled over that, just saying. It was a lot more than it should have been. We don't expect the first quarter this year to be anything like the past one.

ShyGuy

Which is why an IPO is not happening for 2013. The 4th quarter 2012 results will be released soon, and it is suppose to be an operational profit. For 2013, the first quarter is suppose to be an operating loss, but not as bad as 2012 first quarter. Then the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quarters of 2013 are suppose to be operationally profitable, with the goal of being net operationally profitable for 2013. With that in mind, the IPO will be mid to late 2014, if the operational profitable numbers come out as projected. That is the reason that aircraft have been deferred. One more airplane coming (with sharklets) and then no more until 2015. Without new aircraft pre-delivery payments and leases, and with markets maturing, the aim is to be steady towards an operational profit.

IMO, the Virgin investors (Virgin Group/Branson), the American investor groups, and the BOD have a vision and are steady in their support of VX. This latest pay increase isn't something they would have done if VX's situation was dire. Obviously the BOD has done the math, projected expense numbers and labor costs, and gave the pilots the increases as published. Also, the FA group also got raises, though I'm not sure to what amount.

Sniper

Or VX just did the raises to keep the current group on property since the losses are continuing, and it's cheaper to do 'retention' bonuses than have your CA's take their furlough recall and your FO's leave for other carriers, requiring new hiring, upgrades, and the associated training costs.

You, nor I, know little about the real motivations of the BOD at Virgin America. I hope this pay raise is a good omen.

ShyGuy

I'd doubt that. The United guys will go back. The legacy new UAL contract is far better/above what any LCC has to offer. So you're not gonna stop those guys from leaving. Other than that, the FOs leaving have been in very small numbers and mostly guys that are super junior - one year or less. And even if they wanted to keep this group around, they didn't have to give as high a raise as what came out. Internal polling on their private webboard showed most thought it would have been 3-5%.

And btw, newhire types from Airbus were included as part of the initial order.