Airline Pilot Central Forums - The future of the industry

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Originally Posted by flybywire44 (Post 1452837)

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Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1452800)

Ugh. I loathed the -40 because they put those stinking -15s derated to -11s. I think that was the config. Man those things were pigs.

They were especially bad when they had intermixed engines. I still can't believe the FAA ever approved that.

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Originally Posted by WARich (Post 1448877)

This might be a loaded question and provide many opportunities for the conversation to get hijacked, but where does everyone see the industry in 1, 5, 10, 20 years? This includes what happens with the majors, regionals, pay, QOL, hiring, everything.......ok....have at it....:D

The trend now is a once celebrated career becoming nothing more but brother can you spare a job. This industry resembles nothing like the 70's or 80's.

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Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1452731)

The B717 will have a lower CASM then any 76 seater. For the rock bottom price that the B717s were acquired for it'll be difficult to not make $$$ with them. Delta is still making money with the DC9-50. It has less seats then the B717 & is much less fuel efficient.

I'm not sure why you think SW operates the B717 any different then Delta will. I jump seated on a AirTran B717 just a few months ago, & it wasn't a quick turn at all.

There is more involved than CASM. A 767 has a lower cost per seat mile than a 717. Yet there are markets that won't support a 767 but will support a 717...etc
Segment cost is probably the most important factor...which is why a 767 doesn't fly between Msp and Cid.

Legacy airlines form all countries are going to see a decline in international flying. You can’t compete with the Middle Eastern carriers. Gas in Saudi Arabia is 45 cents a gallon, jet fuel is about the same. They pay the pilots pretty good but everybody else is paid crap. The rampers are a from Pakistan or Bangladesh and get 500 dollars a month at best. Cabin crew get 1500 a month at best. No pensions, no Unions, the list goes on and on. There is no way to compete with these carriers and make money.

As soon as the Middle East airlines start to code share with JetBlue, Spirit, Virgin (Australia), Ryan Air (Europe), etc. these LCC’s will supply plenty of passengers for the international flying. LCC’s doing domestic, Middle East Airlines doing long haul. Going to be interesting times ahead.

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Originally Posted by stratofactor (Post 1454703)

Gas may be, but Jet-A definitely isn't.... I actually paid less in LSGG than OERK if you can believe that.

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They pay the pilots pretty good but everybody else is paid crap. The rampers are a from Pakistan or Bangladesh and get 500 dollars a month at best. Cabin crew get 1500 a month at best. No pensions, no Unions, the list goes on and on. There is no way to compete with these carriers and make money.

I think it has a lot more to do with geography than anything else. Draw 8 hour flight time circles from Europe, Asia and Africa and note where these circles all intersect. Look at the major population centers, then look at the total population, then look at the players.... EK, EY, QR, TK.

As for the pay, US carriers are far more competitive due to low pilot costs. We can compete transatlantic to Europe and all and maybe South America... but the onboard amenities and customer service need to vastly improve.

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As soon as the Middle East airlines start to code share with JetBlue, Spirit, Virgin (Australia), Ryan Air (Europe), etc. these LCC’s will supply plenty of passengers for the international flying. LCC’s doing domestic, Middle East Airlines doing long haul. Going to be interesting times ahead.

Virgin Australia already does code-share with EY. As for other LCC's, I don't think any of the premium Middle East airlines want anything to do with the likes of Ryanair or Spirit as they're too.... low-budget and offer absolutely no amenities. Y class on say QR (excellent service and amenities) connecting with Spirit where you get charged for water?! I doubt QR would want to put their code on an airline that does that.

[QUOTE=RJSAviator76;1455966]Gas may be, but Jet-A definitely isn't.... I actually paid less in LSGG than OERK if you can believe that.

Flying a contract for Saudi Arabian Airlines right now, Jet A-1 in OEJN is 25 cents a gallon and in OEMA it's 50 cents a gallon. We tanker fuel whenever we can. Home team airline must get it cheaper.:eek:

Does anyone think domestic carriers service/aircraft seating will ever compete with some of the nice international carriers?