HighTailN2Pipes

This question came up in a beer-fueled debate, perhaps a legally-minded person can settle it:

OSHA regulation paragraph 29 CFR 1910.141 (c)(1)(i) talks about access to bathroom facilities at a workplace. It basically requires that all employees in the US have reasonable and more or less immediate access to restroom facilities while at work, citing various health studies, etc.

FAA regulations essentially trump OSHA regs inflight based on the agreement the 2 agencies have.

Assume you are a copilot on a long domestic or international overwater flight for any US carrier. Your captain is, for whatever reason (again this is NOT based on ANY actual event or person, just for the sake of debate) not letting you get up and go to the can. You need to go really bad. There is no turbulence, the cabin service timing is NOT a factor, you are in a low-workload cruise period on a routine flight. He just simply says no and refuses to let you go for whatever reason. You ask him for a reason and he says something to the equivalent of "you drink too much water and I'm sick of putting the damn mask on, just hold it for a little while". You REALLY need to go. He is the PIC, you are under his command, and you must follow any "lawful" orders he gives, per your manual and the regs. Is he LEGALLY allowed to prevent you from attending to "physiological needs" and prevent you from either drinking or peeing (assume not excessively in either case, just sort of the "high side of normal"), and if not, what set of regs is he violating? If he is violating any worker's rights or FAR regs, is it a "lawful" command and therefore, are you (the copilot) considered to be in mutiny if you refuse to comply (either keep drinking and pee in a bottle, or just call the cabin and set up your own break against his possibly vehement protest)? Has any such case actually occurred to anyone's knowledge and if so how did it play out? Who would the CP or union side with?

If he is NOT violating anything by making you hold it, even if you are "swimming", do you have any recourse?

WWYD?

JoeyMeatballs

You kidding me? I'd tell the CA to go F---k himself and call the F/As up and go to the bathroom. It's not a 1940s Flight deck where you would rather Sh-t your pants than annoy your CA

EMBFlyer

You smile and say you have 2 choices. I'm either ****ing in the john or ****ing in your bag. You then reach for the interphone and call the back. When you land, your next call is to Professional Standards.

I would even do the above on probation. Is the guy serious?!

I recall a Captain that I look up to saying to me (as a result of an FA jumpseater telling us they were busy in the back), "Ain't nobody tellin' me I can't pee! I don't **** my pants for nobody!"

johnso29

DING DING DING!!! I know how to use the interphone. I couldn't care less if he doesn't want to put the mask on. I don't want him to stay until 65 yrs of age.

Boomer

I'm fine peeing in a cup, as long as we're not below 10,000. There's always a little privacy towards the back of the flight deck.

WHACKMASTER

Seriously, what they said ^^^ Why even waste our time with such a stupid thread?

WHACKMASTER

See, now there you go throwing out the flamebait.

Monkey Wrench

OSHA only has jurisdiction over maintenance and other ground personnel, but not flight or cabin crews onboard aircraft during flight operations. The FAA is working in implementing OSHAish standards, or so they say.

Monkeyfly

Whoa. This exact scenario happened to me! And I happened to get it on video. (I'm the guy in the right seat.)

Copilot slaps Pilot while Flight Engineer watches - YouTube

pete2800

I'd probably just unzip and start peeing all over the flight deck.


Non-verbal communication is almost always more effective.


Edit: It also would probably make the flight deck cleaner, if anything.