Well said. Same boat.

There's absolutely no reason why we can't keep our work rules AND have industry standard wages and retirement. One thing I've noticed since being here is a defeatist attitude some of our guys have. I'm not saying you, ManFlex, but I sometimes hear from guys (usually the senior ones) that if we want to make gains in pay, retirement, etc., then we have to give up something, not to mention the fact that many also don't realize just how far behind we've fallen in our hourly rates. This attitude/lack of awareness is complete and total bullcrap. I can't wrap my head around why some guys are thinking like this, or aren't educating themselves as we get ready to open negotiations.

I have no idea why guys would think that way. If we don't believe that we are worth more, than how could we ever hope to convince Baldanza, Bendo or the NMB that we are?

I want to make this the best airline to be a pilot for in the industry. We have a great foundation laid by those who have been here a while and walked a picket line. We work for the most profitable airline in the USA by many metrics, they can afford to pay us above industry average wages and still make a killing.

But were they upgrading 14 a month the whole time the current 2 1/5 year captains were fos? I imagine it was less and increased to the current number. With the new sims going in I imagine the plan is to train more down the road. But what do I know.

Aside from 4 days off (which is priceless) and transition language (which 10 percent of the group takes advantage of 10 percent of the time). The legacy contacts beat us in almost every section including scheduling.

This is what guys are talking about when it comes to education going into negotiations. The spirit strike paved the way out of the lost decade and now the legacies have pattern bargained up significantly. Keeping our scheduling section and adding AVERAGE pay and retirement is not how you pattern bargain. Lead from the front!

I appreciate the sentiment. But I'm sure you acknowledge the difficulty a 70-80 aircraft airline will have going from below average pay to industry leading in one contract cycle. I think a realistic outcome is to put our pay at parity with the legacies' A320 pilots W2's. That will be achieved through a mixture of rate increases, work rule adjustments, retirement adjustments, etc.

And in regards to our scheduling section, I'd argue that ours is better than all of the legacies. Basically, I'd like our work rules with Delta payrates and Delta's retirement contribution. Our health insurance is superior to Delta's as well. I think gains will be made, but let's be realistic about where we stand today.

I don't really see a relationship with size of the airline and achievable compensation.

Deltas retirement is nice but Ual and AA have better. 16% of wages into your account. It can't be stolen or frozen. It's yours. 9% match only up to $17500 is crazy. The percentage is too low and I want to use my 9% how I want not contribute just to get theirs. I should get theirs either way.

Ill have to do some more research on healthcare but I find it hard believe that ours is better than deltas and others. It's not terrible but I had basically the same list of plans and benefits with lower premiums at the regional I came from. Dental wasn't included which is a nice perk we have. Also the diamond plan we have with company putting a hefty amount to cover the deductible wasn't an option but yes the "Cadillac" plans were the same for less.

Our LTD is an embarrassment. It needs to go to 65 and not be affected by any other source of income so long as you can't get an FAA medical.

What about the scheduling section is so amazing besides 4 days off. That's something no one has and is amazing bar none. Everything else is average really. Shiit we train on days off! Who does that?!

Don't get me wrong. I love it here and think the company has a bright future. I also respect what the guys that went on strike did because without you the rest of us probably wouldn't have come. But with retirements happening and upgrades coming down at the majors we really need to make this a real place to retire if we want to retain and attract pilots once all the regional refugees run out. Contact 2010 was actually pretty damn good for 2010. My problem is those that live in a bubble and still think its good for 2014 or those that would rather have less hourly and less work rules so they can work 26 days a month at 150% instead.

I urge you to get a hold of the contract comparison that the AA union just did this past January. It will show much more areas than just pay and prove some of the things I'm talking about.

My wife has had 3 MRI's this year and will probably end up having two surgeries this year as well, and our health ins is great here (while other things may need to be worked on) our health ins is not one. The only way our health ins could get better is if we had a bigger more widely taken provider (BCBS or Aetna). Here is a link to AA insurance that I found in their thread, their ins is horrible compared to ours.

Benefits | American | Airlines | Coverage :: my.aa.com

Admittedly, I'm not as familiar with AA's new agreement. And to clarify, I was hired post strike. I can't take any credit for what those guys achieved.

In regards to the scheduling section, besides the four days off, we have a maximum of a six day work block. Compare that to what happens at Delta in the summer months due to 'unstacking' in PBS. They can work more than 6 day blocks. Also, I'd point to our reserve rules. Despite not having a long call option, our reserve rules provide little flexibility for the company so utilization tends to be lower. It is unheard of to have days off rolled-as opposed to what happens at United for example. We also do not have ready reserve, which made a return in UAL's newest contract. The transition conflict is huge even if it can't be used more than a few months a year. As an example, I got 19 days off on reserve this month due to having a 12 day conflict. I am very junior in category. This is not possible under any PBS scheduling system.

It's easy to cast these things aside. Let me be clear: we do need more of everything in contract 2015. My life will not change with $20,000 - $30,000 more on my W2. Nice to have - absolutely. Lose many of those aforementioned QOL items - Spirit may become a job not worth having. In that case, leaving for the highest paid carrier (whoever it is) may start to make sense.

I'm most familiar with Delta's insurance options and to some people's surprise, we do have a better plan available than they do. I don't say these things to malign any other carrier. I'm just trying to help some in understanding our current predicament.

And should we come up short on this next contract, I'll be in line at the AA or Delta booth next to the rest of you guys looking to bail.