RECAll LEE MOAK NOW
 

Write your reps, call ALPA National and burn up the phone lines. Submit resolutions, ask for an emergency MEC meeting at your carrier and kick him out of Herndon. This guy is a sellout and is no longer working in OUR interested, but that of Wall Street and Management.

ALPA National Switchboard: 703-689-2270

Done. I don't need guys like him on my side.

Input sent to my reps. He needs to go. Yesterday.

I rarely have time to review the boards... educate me.
Post the bullet points and I can do my research from there.
Why should he be tossed out and who do you think will take his place?
Do you have a personal problem with him or is he taking the organization in the wrong direction?

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Pilot Contract Talks in 2015 to Come Amid Robust Airline Profits

By Justin Bachman August 13, 2014
With U.S. airlines awash in cash these days, one of the big questions in the industry has become how much of that wealth will pilots seek next year when contracts at several carriers come up for renegotiation.



Contracts at four large airlines—Delta Air Lines (DAL), Hawaiian (HA), Spirit (SAVE), and Jazz Aviation, a regional operator for Air Canada—are up for talks in 2015, covering nearly 15,000 pilots represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, the largest pilots union in North America. JetBlue Airways’ (JBLU) 2,500 pilots are also hoping to secure their first contract next year, after voting this spring to join ALPA.


U.S. carriers are producing enormous profits after years of consolidation. In the most recent quarter, the six largest U.S. carriers collectively earned $3.97 billion, with American, Southwest, Alaska Airlines (ALK), and JetBlue all reporting record net income for the period. U.S. carriers lost almost $60 billion from 2000 to 2009.


“This is really a good story,” ALPA President Lee Moak said Tuesday during a visit to Bloomberg Businessweek in New York, part of a quick tour to assure Wall Street analysts that ALPA’s contract demands won’t prove onerous to airlines. “I almost can’t stand it, it’s so good.”


Shareholders have started to realize returns in the form of dividends and stock buybacks. Thanks to the profits, pilots now see themselves as collaborators with management—they increasingly lobby alongside airline executives in Washington. That, says Moak, deepens the working relationships. “All of a sudden, you find yourself on the same side of 95 percent of the issues,” he says.


Another boost has come from profit-sharing schemes adopted by the airlines as a way of rewarding employees when times are good—and the deals carry no commitments should profit shrink. In February, Delta paid employees, including its 11,900 pilots, a record $506 million in profit sharing, equal to about 8 percent of annual salaries. The airline forecasts that amount to increase next year, given higher profit this year.


Southwest expects to pay out $228 million to workers this year in profit shares, nearly double the amount from 2013. United paid $190 million in February tied to its income last year. (Delta and United make the payments on Valentine’s Day.) Several airlines also pay workers monthly incentives for meeting performance targets, such as more on-time arrivals and improvements on the rate of mishandled bags. United paid employees an extra $125 for meeting on-time arrival and departure goals in July. Delta says it paid nearly $92 million last year in similar incentives. “The employees are now coupled to the airlines,” says Moak, a Delta captain who is stepping down at year’s end after four years as president.
Of course, all the cash an airline generates can go to shareholders or employees, and that basic dynamic is likely to play out in the 2015 contract negotiations—especially at Delta and Spirit, both industry leaders when it comes to superior financial returns. Moak contends that ALPA pilots at the larger carriers enjoy what he calls “mature, good contracts” already. Radical overhauls aren’t in the cards, he says.


Most of the contract talks are likely to center on basic compensation—hourly pay rates and how much carriers pay into pilots’ retirement plans. “There will be a business discussion of pay as it relates to revenue,” Moak says. “You can argue about $2 or $2.05, and that matters to the crew member,” but “you’re working on the margins” on the new contracts, he says.


Airlines have been mum on what they’ll seek in the contract talks, despite some analyst queries on quarterly earnings calls. “We have a productive and proactive relationship with our pilots and ALPA, focused on winning in the marketplace and addressing our business challenges and opportunities together,” Delta spokeswoman Kate Modolo said in an e-mail. A Spirit spokesman, Paul Berry, declined to comment, as did a spokeswoman for Hawaiian, Alison Croyle.

(written generically to those on this thread, nobody in particular)

This is kind of silly. Save yourself the embarrassment.

The procedure to recall a President is via Executive Board which would require the action of your MEC Chairman. We have a Board of Director's meeting in October and Lee Moak has thus far signalled he is not running.

Besides, the interview with President Moak was as short as the article's quotes.

Moak's been right on the matter of our getting better contracts with healthy employers.

Bar-
I agree with you on the Moak recall. There's not enough time for it to make a difference.

I disagree on your dismissal of his comments. They are genuinely troubling.

Combine Moak's statements with Anderson's recent comment to investors that his relationship with ALPA is so good that labor risk is completely off the table at Delta Air Lines and I think we should all start to get worried.

Then there's the letters from the UAL Legislative Affairs Chairman describing Moak's role in sabotaging their negotiations...

The evidence is mounting. ALPA may be compromised. They're not what we think.

If we want to have real negotiations for Contract 2015 and not just some sham production orchestrated by ALPA and management to look like negotiations, then we might need to recall more than Moak. His minions are thoroughly entrenched at DALPA.

You might find that the reporter took comments out of context or left out amplifying statements. If you have ever dealt with the press it happens most of the time. Still there should be a response from LM.

You are correct that if we line pilots are going to change anything, then the place to begin is with our Reps and local offices.

Some of ALPA's best strategic thinkers are finding they make a lot more money flying the line with a lot less headache. (despite the DPA's claims to the contrary ... ). They still have very astute opinions, but I think we are seeing a lot of change in the day to day administrative staffing.

Frankly, I do not know how that shapes up, politically.

Is it lost on you guys that Lee Moak won't be at the table when negotiations for Contract 2015 begin in April?

What sort of negotiating environment do you want next year - one where there are record profits, sky-high profit sharing checks and tons of investor confidence, or one where every fund manager is running away from the stock?

It's not like he's some sort of Rasputin...

Interesting comparison.

I think a better idea for most/all ALPA carriers would be to vote out ALPA completely, and form your own in-house union to represent your own personal/professional needs. One size fits all/politically motivated ALPA is no longer the answer in my opinion. An in-house union really does have the backs of their pilots heads and shoulders above what ALPA does these days. It would be the ultimate message vs. recalling a DC/management biased ALPA president.

ALPA National says Endeavor has a good contract.

That thought is not exclusive to Moak or most pilots.

That's exactly why he should be recalled now. We need to signal that we do NOT accept bankruptcy as a reset and that our expectations are to be significantly restored with C2015. Moak has communicated just the opposite and, in doing so, has torpedoed C2015 for us. He needs to go. Now. Before he does any more damage.

FYI... I emailed my reps with input that I think Lee Moak should be recalled. I've had numerous exchanges with them in the past few hours and NONE of them see anything wrong with what he said. Houston we have a problem. Maybe these reps need to be recalled too!

What little jewel did he say that's got everyone so upset?

Absolutely correct....simple political posturing. This is why the reps aren't that excited 88

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Pilot Contract Talks in 2015 to Come Amid Robust Airline Profits

By Justin Bachman August 13, 2014
With U.S. airlines awash in cash these days, one of the big questions in the industry has become how much of that wealth will pilots seek next year when contracts at several carriers come up for renegotiation.

Contracts at four large airlines—Delta Air Lines (DAL), Hawaiian (HA), Spirit (SAVE), and Jazz Aviation, a regional operator for Air Canada—are up for talks in 2015, covering nearly 15,000 pilots represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, the largest pilots union in North America. JetBlue Airways’ (JBLU) 2,500 pilots are also hoping to secure their first contract next year, after voting this spring to join ALPA.

U.S. carriers are producing enormous profits after years of consolidation. In the most recent quarter, the six largest U.S. carriers collectively earned $3.97 billion, with American, Southwest, Alaska Airlines (ALK), and JetBlue all reporting record net income for the period. U.S. carriers lost almost $60 billion from 2000 to 2009.

“This is really a good story,” ALPA President Lee Moak said Tuesday during a visit to Bloomberg Businessweek in New York, part of a quick tour to assure Wall Street analysts that ALPA’s contract demands won’t prove onerous to airlines. “I almost can’t stand it, it’s so good.”

Shareholders have started to realize returns in the form of dividends and stock buybacks. Thanks to the profits, pilots now see themselves as collaborators with management—they increasingly lobby alongside airline executives in Washington. That, says Moak, deepens the working relationships. “All of a sudden, you find yourself on the same side of 95 percent of the issues,” he says.

Another boost has come from profit-sharing schemes adopted by the airlines as a way of rewarding employees when times are good—and the deals carry no commitments should profit shrink. In February, Delta paid employees, including its 11,900 pilots, a record $506 million in profit sharing, equal to about 8 percent of annual salaries. The airline forecasts that amount to increase next year, given higher profit this year.

Southwest expects to pay out $228 million to workers this year in profit shares, nearly double the amount from 2013. United paid $190 million in February tied to its income last year. (Delta and United make the payments on Valentine’s Day.) Several airlines also pay workers monthly incentives for meeting performance targets, such as more on-time arrivals and improvements on the rate of mishandled bags. United paid employees an extra $125 for meeting on-time arrival and departure goals in July. Delta says it paid nearly $92 million last year in similar incentives. “The employees are now coupled to the airlines,” says Moak, a Delta captain who is stepping down at year’s end after four years as president.
Of course, all the cash an airline generates can go to shareholders or employees, and that basic dynamic is likely to play out in the 2015 contract negotiations—especially at Delta and Spirit, both industry leaders when it comes to superior financial returns. Moak contends that ALPA pilots at the larger carriers enjoy what he calls “mature, good contracts” already. Radical overhauls aren’t in the cards, he says.

Most of the contract talks are likely to center on basic compensation—hourly pay rates and how much carriers pay into pilots’ retirement plans. “There will be a business discussion of pay as it relates to revenue,” Moak says. “You can argue about $2 or $2.05, and that matters to the crew member,” but “you’re working on the margins” on the new contracts, he says.

Airlines have been mum on what they’ll seek in the contract talks, despite some analyst queries on quarterly earnings calls. “We have a productive and proactive relationship with our pilots and ALPA, focused on winning in the marketplace and addressing our business challenges and opportunities together,” Delta spokeswoman Kate Modolo said in an e-mail. A Spirit spokesman, Paul Berry, declined to comment, as did a spokeswoman for Hawaiian, Alison Croyle.

-------------------------------------


What are your thoughts Gloopy?

Carl

I see how that could be read either way. Even a Dubinsky style letter admits that the more golden eggs there are, the more we can choke out. :D

Its written by a ladder climbing politician and vetted by lawyers prior to consumption by the line swine, so its intentionally ambiguous. I could put an anti-Moak hat on and crucify him over it, or a pro-Moak hat and defend what he said, and spin it to be either pro or anti labor.

One tried and true management trick is to box labor into the "pie is only so big" frame of mind, and then let us fight over "our piece". While there technically is some truth to that (we just can't get a billion dollars per hour because the company would liquidate on DOS) the general problem with that line of thinking is that it usually tries to frame the debate with too small a slice of pie to begin with, and then turns labor loose on itself to divvy up (junior versus senior, domestic versus international, captain versus FO, line holder versus reserve, etc) which is highly distracting as well as reduces unity, so its a double win (for management) if we fall for it.

I have no desire to defend Moak at all, and am very suspiscious of him both now and in the future for when he "leaves to spend more time with his family" or whatever the press release will say, and then ends up even higher up the ladder, which we all know he will. But you could take what he said and spin it to mean the whole pie is massively bigger than before, so whatever piece we get is going to be bigger in proportion. I'd like that, but I'm not convinced that's what he really meant. There's enough wiggle room in what he said though that it could be.

He also may be trying to say that we're pretty much there, and perhaps he's validating the "bankruptcy reset" mentality. I don't like that at all.

In any case, Donatelli has the ball and its his huddle. Even if Moak is calling bad plays from the sidelines, he can always turn his headset down and call an audible. ALPA can't afford to lose DAL or UAL. We are their largest "customers" and they need to keep us relatively happy. We'll only tolerate a "train of abuses" so long before one of the two seeks to form a more perfect Union, at which time the wheels will come off the gravy train.

Whatever he meant, perhaps we should seek clarification and specifics. We've had enough political grandstanding and 30 second ads where someone stands up there saying "I'm for things that are good, and I'm against things that are bad!" to thunderous applause. Recall or not, we need to massively up our participation. Even Dubinsky couldn't achieve anything without high levels of unity and participation.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on that one. I think there's strength in unity and numbers. I still believe in ALPA, as well as our representatives and volunteers at Spirit.

If this was a one time event you might have a case. That is, if he didn't already have a history of selling scope and undermining the profession. Are you aware of the missed opportunity with regard to Compass. Do you see leadership creating a better industry now and in the future with the Endeavor fiasco? If you ask him directly he will tell you "regional jets cannot be flown economically at mainline". He's always believed this. His approach has derailed the train more than once and answers in part how the line got moved with outsourcing so many times over the last 15 years to the point where 50% of all domestic Delta flying is not performed by Delta pilots.

Look around you! Listen to what Moak says or doesn't (ever) say in ALPA magazine and elsewhere. Look at what Moak did with regard to the UCAL negotiations. Does he promote gains for labor or is he too busy colluding with management to make effective gains? Does he get in the way of individual MEC's being effective? Did you read the pirep from Heide Oberndorf in dealing with Moak who clearly was not helping but rather hurting negotiations? Discount all you want but I believe what she says here...

"Instead of standing up to management and telling the pilots that through solid strategic planning and perseverance we had an excellent chance of success at bringing home an industry leading contract, ALPA decided to undermine our approach and react to the whims of the company and the NMB. ALPA National’s propaganda began to infiltrate the rank & file and soon we had line pilots claiming to be experts on what we could or could not accomplish under the RLA. These “experts” were essentially Lee Moak supporters who agreed with his management-friendly approach to labor negotiations. His plan was little more than a management driven process where we were to take orders from the A4A and their team of lobbyists and advisors, wait as long as management wanted to wait, and take whatever management wanted us to have when the time finally came.

It is my belief that Lee Moak worked in concert with his connections at the A4A to shut us down. The A4A’s CEO and top political lobbyist, Nick Calio (who is now conveniently an editorial writer for Air Line Pilot Magazine), began making calls to Patton Boggs inquiring about the work our advisor was doing for United pilots. Meanwhile Seth Rosen (long time ALPA attorney and Lee Moak’s top negotiations advisor) started to publically discredit our advisor to anyone who would listen. Moak and Pierce’s plan to get rid of our D.C. insider reached a truly astonishing level at a scheduled joint CAL/UAL MEC meeting where Pierce had a select CAL MEC Member leave the room at various times to meet with Seth Rosen who was just outside. Each time, she would return and grill our advisor with virtually the exact same questions that Nick Calio had asked the partners at Patton Boggs. Subsequent calls to Patton Boggs from Calio claimed a “conflict of interest” due to other multi-million dollar accounts that Patton Boggs had with the airlines. This meant that despite the existence of no true conflict, the big money pressure had worked. Under protest, our advisor had to let us go. This is how the game is played in Washington D.C. We had been outmaneuvered from behind by our own Association.

...I find it rather distasteful that our ALPA President invited Doug Mc Keen, Senior VP of Labor Relations for United Airlines, to the IFALPA conference just as UAL/CAL negotiations were heating up.

...Finally, let me be clear that working with management collaboratively is not a bad thing. In fact, it should be encouraged. However, lying in bed with them and allowing management to dictate all terms to us as we go forward in our careers will do nothing more than give the A4A the ability to manage us into extinction."

Moak
 

If lee is re-elected I will quit aviation! The fact that he had the audacity to write me a letter saying I need to take a pay-cut from my $35,000 a year job shows the huge disconnect ALPA has from its members.

With friends like him, who needs enemies?

I agree that is ridiculous. However if he said "hold the line!" and then your company (Pinnacle I assume?) liquidated, would ALPA face another DFR lawsuit? Far more importantly, what did your elected reps say about it? Did your membership vote on it, and how did they vote?

An ALPA pres witholding signature is extremely rare. It needs to happen more than it does though, particularly at the ACMI/RFP level. But even then, would that just mean the RAH or the non union portion of the SKYW "air groups" would just get it?

Some of this may be fixing itself from pure supply and demand coupled with poor industry management for well over a decade, especially recently. We'll see.

In any case, I wouldn't quit your job based on the elections going on at ALPA national. Besides, LM probably won't even seek re-election. At least, he has no plans to do so at this time. :rolleyes:

Good points all. But I want to reiterate that I wasn't trying to make that case. I was only trying to show how that case could be made. Such is always the case with vaguely ambiguous general statements from politicians, vetted by lawyers.

I tend more to belive that he believes that we are in a new permanent "bankruptcy reset" era where COLA raises offset with concessions for anything more is a home run. :(

Whatever he believes though, its far more up to us than it is up to him as to the direction we choose to pursue. He may think he's the "grand architect" and calls the shots, but with DAL and UAL especially, he's driving his truck on thin ice. If either goes, the whole thing goes. In any case, he's *supposedly* not running again. Then again, he wasn't runnig last time either.

For all those concerned about him and his direction, how many are providing regular feedback to your reps? And not just generic "LM sucks!" but real, specific feedback on why you don't like the current direction we're headed in and what you'd like to specifically see, and make them tell you if they agree or disagree and why?

There won't ever be a changing of the guard with a dozen people showing up to meetings and reps who only get called when someone thinks their pay might be off by a few minutes. Cutting a check and having a team of pit bulls take care of everything for us so we can forget about it and await the signing ceremony on a record smashing deal is for athletes and upper level executives that spend a heck of a lot more than 1.9% for their representation. We have to get involved, stay involved and spread the word. Otherwise, we probably will be lucky for COLA "raises" offset with concessions.

I can't put my finger on it yet, but when I read her letters I get the feeling I'm about to hear Paul Harvey's voice kick in with the familiar "and now, for the rest of the story."

Yet you defend Lee Moak who has explicitly said what he's said?

Carl

I'm not defending Lee Moak at all. If my post gave anyone that impression it was certainly not my intent. I just think her statements are like those of many political people, Moak included, in that they don't always reveal the entire story.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In general, I would agree with you except, she names too many names and occasions which leads me to believe she has both documented hard evidence and no concern about being proven libelous. In other words, her account is honest.

That may very well be the case.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm glad to hear that because your posts did give me that impression.

But I don't see what you're seeing with Heidi. I've read her letters closely and do not see political double speak. In fact, her letters read to me like a transcript of facts that she can back up. What am I missing? Can you give me some examples of her letters not revealing the whole story, or typical politician-speak?

Carl

No I can't point to anything specific in her letters Carl. Her letters just gave me that gut feeling. I could be wrong.

The letters also left me with the impression that she was someone who had been getting stuff done at UALPA. A shaker and a mover if you will, being their legislative affairs committee chairman and appearing to be so involved with the inner workings of everything going on with all the details and specifics she provided. When I asked a good friend from United about her, his response was "I've never heard of her." I took that from my own perspective of what that would look like if he asked me who Dino was. I couldn't imagine having paid any attention at all over the years and not know who he was or have at least heard of him. It struck me as odd and did nothing to mitigate the cautionary feeling I had from originally reading the letters.

Her accounts may be entirely truthful and it is possible that she would do good things for us all if elected. I just don't know. I would expect to see significant United line pilot support for her if that is the case. Either way, I tip my hat to her for at least stepping up to the plate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cry me a friggin river. Moak showed his true colors during the DAL BK, basically taking a bribe on ALPA's behalf to not make objections (grievances) to the termination of the pilot pension plan. No grievance to the termination of the unqualified pensions either. He should have been sued for racketeering but the statute of limitations ran out. Old news, but skunks don't change their stripes.

Why would you expect anything different from this POS MINO (Marine In Name Only).

That "bribe" put $650M into our collective DC accounts that, when combined with the claim, gave us about a $2B headstart on replacing a DB plan that, by all accounts, we would have lost one way or the other.

I don't know much about R&I stuff, but aren't unqualified funds always at risk if the carrier goes under or the plan is terminated?

The sad thing is, the independent pilot retirement fund had plenty of money in it when DAL took over administration in 1972. What does that tell you?

Two things, get a pension in your own name that you control and don't rely on your airline to fund your pension. :(

Agreed....

But they promised..........