Being an Expat working for United
 

Gday folks,

As you can guess from my opening line (& my handle) I am an aussie & am seeking some info about United.

At this current stage I don't have an FAA licence but am giving serious consideration about getting one in the very near future. I don't have a green card but I'm still looking into it. This thread is purely for research purposes @ this time.

Is it possible for a pilot working for United to commute internationally ???

About 3 years ago I came across a United 747-400 Captain who resides full time in Sydney Australia but commutes to work in the USA (he was born & raised in the USA however he never mentioned his base). It's my understanding that there are provisions in the United contract but I've never seen the contract.

Is it possible to build a roster in such a way that a pilot can fly the hours required of them & return to there country of domicile ???, wherever it may be in the world.

Obviously a green card is required to work for United & that presents other problems such as time spent in USA versus outside of it for residency.
Again this question is purely for research purposes & things can change in the future.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

That UAL captain was likely quite senior to able to commute from so far away. Commuting is done on days off and it would consume a lot of days off to commute. They do not build a roster for commuters to go to or from where they live. You may be in luck though because, as the result of a recent merger, there is now a United base in Guam. A far easier commute I would think.

Imagine this scenario. I'm an American citizen with no ties to Australia but I'm interested in flying for Qantas. Citizenship issues aside, just assume one day I obtain it, can I eventually fly a Qantas 747 or A380 out of SYD while living in LAX and commuting?

What ever answer you give for that, basically just reverse it and it's probably all true.

Don't come to America. Ebolans have taken over.

Go fly for Virgin Blue, Tiger, Jetstar etc etc. you'll be much happier.

Why would you want to fly for United, yet still live in Australia? Why not target Virgin Blue, Tiger, Jet Star, Qantas and not face such a commute? If you're interested in working as an expat then there are plenty of expat gigs around - Emirates, Etihad, Cathay, any number of Asian contracts - all a lot closer to Australia.

FYI there are plenty of us Americans trying to get on to our legacy carriers. Before that gets taken the wrong way - I'm married to an Australian!

I guess he liked the haircuts.

Would you like to have your hair cut by women in lingerie as you drink beer? ? Ultimate News

Awesome replies, Keep 'em coming
 

Hi everyone, thanks for the replies. As I said, just research at this time. Plenty of hoops need to be jumped through before anything happens. I should have mentioned in my initial post that my intention is to live in the USA, or Guam, as required. it would be nice to occasionally travel home for a break outside of annual leave periods.
Other posters have mentioned in other threads (talking about the Guam 737 operations & the like) that it would be possible to do the credit hours required then take the rest of the month off which seemed highly odd.

APC225: Yes, the captain I knew would be fairly senior. He stated that he joined UAL in 1993. If anyone working for UAL knows of any Captains who are or were on the 747-400 commute from Sydney Australia, can you let me know. I'd like to pass on a message to him. He mentioned that before aviation he was studying to be a dentist in Minnesota. Can't be 100% certain on that.

SHYGUY: In theory, with enough seniority, you could live in LA, commute to SYD then operate a QF 747 or A380 provided you had residency in Australia which is not an easy task.

PCLCREW: Yes, Virgin, Jetstar would make me much happier. Tiger is an absolute basket case & QF haven't recruited in the last 6 years. I don't meet the educational requirements for QF anyway. The wanted top subjects which I didn't do.

BUFORD: Yes there are many expat gigs around. Emirates, Etihad require heavy jet time which I don't have, I have no jet time. Cathay are only recruiting Hong Kong nationals & the Asian contracts require time on type which you guessed it, I don't have.

In Australia, college degrees aren't required for aviation jobs. Nobody seems to care about them. All they are interested in are whether you have the hours they want, the licence they want & the right sort of hours they're after (multi turbine RPT etc)

Most US legacies require a 4 year degree. I'm pretty sure the Aussie carrriers don't require a degree so in that regard you'd be worse off in the US. You may want to look at smaller expat gigs that aren't flying the heavy stuff. How old are you?

Buford
 

Hi Buford, yeah I've noticed that. United states on their recruitment site that while a 4yr degree is preferred they are also happy with a High School diploma.

I'm in my early 30's flying a Dash 8 in Papua New Guinea. None of the Aussie airlines require degrees, they are only interested in how much real world experience you have, not necessarily your educational background. They also haven't recruited for several years & as I mentioned in a previous response all of the expat jobs need time on type.

Realistically, United Airlines (assuming I got the licence & the residency paperwork squared away) would be the only airline I could apply to.

I wouldn't say "happy" exactly.

You aren't getting hired without a 4 year degree unless there is something significant in your background. For example, pre-merger 98.5% of all UAL hires had to have 4 year degrees. I'm guessing we've kept that practice post merger.

An example of someone hired without a 4 year degree would be a Naval Cadet (a program from WWII that ended in the 90s) where someone with 2 years of college would go through Navy flight training and then get their wings. They were military pilots without 4 year degrees. Very few of them, but we have a bunch at United. Some of my friends were NAVCADs but no 4 year degree and they are all at airlines.

For what it is worth, right now Guam is our most stable base. Not much movement in or out. I can't say for sure what the chances of a new hire getting based there are but I am guessing not very high. You more than likely WILL get a mainland domicile as a new hire.

If he in fact WAS hired in 1993, he is a 747 First Officer. 1993 hires don't have the seniority for 747 Captain yet.

Bottom line is you can live anywhere as long as you can reliably get to you domicile when you are required to be there.

1993 hire a 747 captain? No.....He'd be a 747 F/O and not overly senior at that.

I know of a guy who commutes from Auckland NZ. Sounds pretty miserable to me but he does it as a line holder on the 777.

Thabks so much for the info fellas. It's all good to hear.

Right. These guys have all been beating around the bush, too polite to give you the straight facts.

Mate, you have two chances of doing what you are talking about: None and f@ck all.

You can't get hired by Qantas (disregarding the fact they're not hiring) because you aren't prepared to go back and do year 12 maths and physics. Yet, you expect to compete with Americans, all of whom will have a four-year university degree and thousands of hours in the Military or the Regionals. Oh, and you don't have citizenship, or the right to work in the US. Then, after you're hired, you expect to move on to one of the most senior aircraft, one on which a guy hired 20 years ago is only a junior F/O, and commute 13 or 14 hours home. Do they not drug test in PNG?

It's a pipe-dream and you're better off focusing on something at least in the realm of possibility.
Cheers, T

Actually, I hate to say it but ^^^^^this is pretty much spot on.

4 year degree preferred basically means you have to have a degree unless you get the job by some other means than applying and interviewing. United Airlines is a very difficult company to get on with. There are thousands of applicants for hundreds of jobs. It may get easier in a few years, but your chances are nil without a degree and competitive hours.

Man, I should've said I'm from Australia too. You guys were way nicer to this guy than I typically see when questions like this are asked.

He's an Aussie, so he'll get this...

There is a HUGE misconception amongst some folks in foreign countries that because there is a large amount of hiring going on that it's easy to find a major airline job in the United States. There is also a misconception that some foreigners feel that their training and rating system is superior to the FAA system. That US airlines are going to be tripping over themselves to hire these foreign candidates due to their "superior" training.

That is NOT how it works. Keep in mind that the average candidate that is getting hired at legacy airlines has a 4 year or higher university degree. Has either a military background or has in the 5,000 to 10,000 hours range, with heavy turbine PIC experience.

Coming over here with no green card, no university degree, and no serious PIC turbine experience and getting snagged up by a U.S. Legacy carrier is a pipe dream. If you are counting on your Australian ATPL to buy you any special credit in the hiring department you need to think again.

What you could do is come over and get a job with regional and build experience. But you'd better be working on that 4 year university degree at the same time as you simply are not even remotely competitive without it.

As far as commuting back to Australia while doing all that. As we say here in the states FAGEDABOUTIT! You won't even be making enough money to BUY a ticket home on your limited days off and almost nonexistent vacation time.

I did fly with one Aussie here at UAL. He was a retired RAAF F-111 pilot who was married to an American girl. He is the ONLY one I've ever met at UAL though I'm sure there are several more.

What you are asking is possible IF you were willing to move to the USA, get a green card and basically start over with a college degree, a US ATP and taking a bottom feeder job to start with. And even then there is no guarantee that you will ever get to a legacy airline.

I am not trying to be mean or rude. But that is pretty much the hard cold truth of the matter.

PS,

I was hired in 1997 this was my third airline, my second major airline I had over 5,000 hours with lots of turbine PIC, DC-8 and 737 experience. I am now entering my 18th year of employment at UAL. If I were to bid the 747 right now I'd be in the bottom 1% and on reserve for the foreseeable future as an F/O. I won't be able to hold captain on the 747 until I am in my late 50's I am now 46 years old. The only base in which I could hold a line on the 777 as an F/O would be Newark and that would be a jr line. Just to put it in greater perspective.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Ausflyer,
There are plenty of non Americans flying in the US. All without, exception, will have, at minimum, a green card. You will need that and, IMHO, a college degree. Maybe UAL mentions collage as preferred but, rest assured, it is a requirement for those of us who do not rate special access to the majors. If you are single I would strongly suggest you find a nice American girl to fall in love (with you). ;) This will be your easiest way to the green card. My suggestion, attend a 4 year university in the USA working on both the degree and green card at the same time. After that, follow the advice given all over the place on this site for getting the right quals to get your United job.

A 1993 hire at UAL is NOT a wide body captain, that SYD commute would be hell with the kind of schedules someone with only 20 years could expect. Things can change in the future, but UAL is currently hiring regional check airmen and military pilots, all of which have degrees.

Thanks for all of the replies (even the smart arse ones).
As I said in my opening post, THIS IS RESEARCH.

My intention was to always move to the USA.

The way SOME posts are written on this bulletin board suggest that bulk time off was available for travel, obviously not the case.
To the poster who suggested I was too lazy to go back to school & do the subjects required of QF, I did go back to school & do them again. The problem I have is that QF changed there requirements both time I went thru my senior subjects.
No interest in working for your regionals on poverty wages. I get paid more than a Captain at some of your regionals anyway :)

Thanks for the feedback regardless.

PS, I hate shrimp, we call them prawns :)

How about a little background then. What are you doing now?

Dash 8 FO.

Income is close to 6 figures with 3 months of leave per year. Was hoping to move to a jet sometime in the near future & was on this site on a fact finding mission.

Just out of curiosity, you said United was the only US legacy you could work for. Just wondering, why just United?

The United careers website states that a High School Diploma is required but a college degree is preferred. I have a High School diploma so I meet that criteria.

Other airlines clearly state that they require college degrees, this criteria I do not meet.

And of course you have read the posts here regarding your chances of getting hired without a university degree at UAL correct?

Just to clarify your odds of getting hire at UAL without a degree are zero to none.

Got it, thanks. Just FYI, even though United doesn't require a degree, to be competitive you need one. The guys getting hired have one and many have masters degrees too. That is what you would be competing against.

Why in the world would you give that up?

Where in OZ do you live? My friends that fly for REX make heaps more than us at the regional levels here in the USA. However While their income is more than double mine, they are all based and live in SYD. The cost of living there vs the cost of living for me in the South Western USA is insane!

All the info has been worth it
 

To all of the posters who managed to tell me that I'm not competitive without a college degree in a normal manner, thankyou, that's the kind of information I was looking for. Silly comments & pictures in reply posts aren't really called for (& disappointing if coming from professionals).

For those asking where I work, it's in PNG. If you're unsure where that is, google it.
Why do I want to leave, well, anyone who's spent any considerable amount of time in a 3rd world country without being part of the military or diplomatic corp will understand why. Like most people, I want to move on career wise to something bigger & better.

Enjoy.

Ausflyer,

For what its worth, I too am an ozzie and live in the US. I have a green card, an FAA ATP and 13500 hours, nearly all jet and almost 5000 PIC wide body command. I have flown for respected major carriers and legacy airlines.

I have had ZERO success in obtaining a job in the US. NOTHING.

I don't have a college degree and I don't even get a reply from Spirit, Virgin, Jetblue etc except for the automated email reply.

I have virtually given up, I don't know how folks get jobs here without someone recommending you but at this stage I will just stick to contract flying in Asia Pacific but the commute is killing me!!!!

Good luck cobber.

By getting your degree...! You can have letters of recommendation from Yeager, Sollenberger and entire Red Bull air racing team, but without a degree you are simply out of the competition.

This is simply not true. Plenty people working at majors and LCC's without degree. Why limit yourself though and make it that much harder.

Sure....., hired back in the day, but lately?? It is an uphill battle for sure. Don't get me wrong, I'm one that thinks it is just a stupid requirement, I haven't used the knowledge acquired in my degree in this career at all....! To require a degree even if it is completely unrelated seems moronic at best..., the fact still remains that without a degree your chances to land a job at the majors is virtually impossible.

If you are a current ATP holder, few thousand hours, clean record, I give it less than 3-5 years for everyone to be able to get on with whatever major they want. That is unless WW III starts before that. If you, like me, are an 80s baby the degree doesn't mean a thing. It only shows you been partying for 5 years and had enough money to burn. I learn more from reading the Economist and Foreign Affairs on my 4-day trips.

I don't know about 'back in the day', but in the mid-80s when I was hired at EAL, my entire class had degrees. Probably 60% were ex-mil which made the degree a foregone conclusion. Hiring back then was heavily ex-mil and thus had degrees. When UA and AA off the street guys to be trained to be pilots in the 60s, the going in condition was a degree.

I doubt the 4-year degree will ever disappear as a basic requirement. I know loads of pilots without degrees that never got a call by a major or a legacy.

303flyboy

Dream on, why do you say that? And don't give me the "retirement curve" shortage theory. I've watched and been active in this industry for almost 50 years, never have I seen, despite many predictions, a shortage.

GF

“You can have letters of recommendation from Yeager, Sollenberger and entire Red Bull air racing team”

That’s funny, I was just having coffee with Chuck, Sully and Hans from Red Bull and they all aid the same thing.

All kidding aside, I have considered a degree but I really don’t know I could cope with work and study together. My commute to work is 10 hours followed by long haul night patterns and my brain hurts just thinking about study . . . .

Do the airlines prefer certain types of degree?

Also, I get a lot of conflicting information. The Virgin recruiter at the job fair in LAS (now there’s an interesting experience) was sure I could get hired without a degree but when I check the feedback from those joining Virgin from the website feed I notice they all have been to university!

And most have internal recs too. Trouble is, I don’t know a single airline pilot working here in the US except for the nice folk I chat to during my commute.

I need to frequent pilot bars more often.

The college degree doesn't prove a pilot's abilities. All it does is makes HR's job easier to sort thru the applicants.
Instead of having a pile of applicants 6ft high, they add a degree requirement & the pile is only 2ft high.
QF in Australia use to require very difficult high school subjects. No other airline did, why, cause (rightly or wrongly) most people wanted to work for QF. They just needed a way of culling applicants easily.

Thanks for the feedback fellas, it's a shame it's taken 4 pages of dribble & smart ass comments to get this far but it's all good stuff.