Here comes age 67
02-24-2015, 05:22 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by dalad
I think it's a treatment like Effudex, it goes after pre-cancerous skin cells, it works great. If you treat your face with it you need to do it a bit at a time, not the whole face, or you will scare people off.
02-24-2015, 05:36 AM
#52
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""ALPA really screwed the pooch on allowing the age to increase to 65. I'm sure they'll do it again.""
ALPA did not allow anything. ICAO issued a ruling that pilots could fly to 65 and the FAA agreed those pilots could fly in US airspace. Prior to this the FAA had won the many age discrimination law suits on the basis of safety. That argument was now dead since the FAA had just agreed it was safe. There were several lawsuits and legislative action in the works to raise the age to 65 or eliminate the retirement age completely. There was zero chance of preventing it from going to 65. ALPA did the smart thing and tried to shape how the age change would be introduced to do the least harm. They were successful in that. Fighting it would have only ended in thousands of pilots already over 60 coming back to work and furloughs for junior pilots.
ALPA did not allow anything. ICAO issued a ruling that pilots could fly to 65 and the FAA agreed those pilots could fly in US airspace. Prior to this the FAA had won the many age discrimination law suits on the basis of safety. That argument was now dead since the FAA had just agreed it was safe. There were several lawsuits and legislative action in the works to raise the age to 65 or eliminate the retirement age completely. There was zero chance of preventing it from going to 65. ALPA did the smart thing and tried to shape how the age change would be introduced to do the least harm. They were successful in that. Fighting it would have only ended in thousands of pilots already over 60 coming back to work and furloughs for junior pilots.
Last edited by sailingfun; 02-24-2015 at 06:02 AM.
02-24-2015, 05:42 AM
#53
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
ALPA really screwed the pooch on allowing the age to increase to 65. I'm sure they'll do it again.
ALPA did not allow anything. ICAO issued a ruling that pilots could fly to 65 and the FAA agreed those pilots could fly in US airspace. Prior to this the FAA had won the many age discrimination law suits on the basis of safety. That argument was now dead since the FAA had just agreed it was safe. There were several lawsuits and legislative action in the works to raise the age to 65 or eliminate the retirement age completely. There was zero chance of preventing it from going to 65. ALPA did the smart thing and tried to shape how the age change would be introduced to do the least harm. They were successful in that. Fighting it would have only ended in thousands of pilots already over 60 coming back to work and furloughs for junior pilots.
ALPA did not allow anything. ICAO issued a ruling that pilots could fly to 65 and the FAA agreed those pilots could fly in US airspace. Prior to this the FAA had won the many age discrimination law suits on the basis of safety. That argument was now dead since the FAA had just agreed it was safe. There were several lawsuits and legislative action in the works to raise the age to 65 or eliminate the retirement age completely. There was zero chance of preventing it from going to 65. ALPA did the smart thing and tried to shape how the age change would be introduced to do the least harm. They were successful in that. Fighting it would have only ended in thousands of pilots already over 60 coming back to work and furloughs for junior pilots.
02-24-2015, 05:46 AM
#54
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So if Japan allows you to fly til your 68th birthday, 3 years longer, can they fly outside of Japan on ICAO rules or are they limited to inside of Japan?
02-24-2015, 05:50 AM
#55
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BTW, according to someone I talked to at DALPA, or acted like they were, something like 10% of the pilots over age 60 are out on sick leave. It's less than 4 percent for the rest of the airline a majority of whom do return to the line.
That cost money too. My brother-in-law is a comptroller, he'll tell you that they don't want to employ people at his company over 55 or maybe it was 60 because their medical costs increase 30%. It's a lot of money.
So, they don't. Out you go based on... performance. He's approaching 60 too so he's not one to want that either, just says that's how it is. IDK how much money you necessarily save flying guys to 68 if 1/10 are not flying and probably will not fly again.
That cost money too. My brother-in-law is a comptroller, he'll tell you that they don't want to employ people at his company over 55 or maybe it was 60 because their medical costs increase 30%. It's a lot of money.
So, they don't. Out you go based on... performance. He's approaching 60 too so he's not one to want that either, just says that's how it is. IDK how much money you necessarily save flying guys to 68 if 1/10 are not flying and probably will not fly again.
02-24-2015, 05:52 AM
#56
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Originally Posted by buzzpat
That's the point. They had something to show for it. A & B funds and they were taken away. 401ks? Sure. Market crashes and stocks bottoming out. That happened too.
I'm not defending guys who bought boats or planes foolishly. Just making the point that it's not their fault that terrorists hijacked planes and flew them into buildings, or the economy tanked, or companies went bankrupt. Or that Congress and the FAA raised the age.
Again, I don't know a single pilot who wants to fly until he's 65 or 67. Most want out as soon as feasibly possible. I know hundreds of them who have to now due to circumstances out of their control.
If that bursts your little career expectations balloon, so be it.
I'm not defending guys who bought boats or planes foolishly. Just making the point that it's not their fault that terrorists hijacked planes and flew them into buildings, or the economy tanked, or companies went bankrupt. Or that Congress and the FAA raised the age.
Again, I don't know a single pilot who wants to fly until he's 65 or 67. Most want out as soon as feasibly possible. I know hundreds of them who have to now due to circumstances out of their control.
If that bursts your little career expectations balloon, so be it.
02-24-2015, 06:00 AM
#57
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There was no option but to do this in Japan..., the union didn't want it nor did the older pilots really, but the situation in Japan is worse in terms of a pilot shortage than in most places, both ANA and JAL are growing and taking deliveries of new A/C and they are running a deficit in terms of hiring VS retirements.., this really doesn't fix the problem, it just pushes it a couple of years down the line..., not only that, the medicals are so tough that just a handful of pilots that want to fly up to 67 will actually get to do it.
The situation in Japan will get like the situation in Russia with the hiring of foreigner and I wouldn't be surprised if JAL will announce another contract for foreign pilots as well.
I sat down and had a few cold ones with a JAL 787 crew recently, they are having a lot of cancelations due to lack of crews and the older guys don't really want to fly pass 60, they are offering big bonuses to be able to get people to agree to sign an additional contract for flying over 60..!
The situation in Japan will get like the situation in Russia with the hiring of foreigner and I wouldn't be surprised if JAL will announce another contract for foreign pilots as well.
I sat down and had a few cold ones with a JAL 787 crew recently, they are having a lot of cancelations due to lack of crews and the older guys don't really want to fly pass 60, they are offering big bonuses to be able to get people to agree to sign an additional contract for flying over 60..!
02-24-2015, 06:23 AM
#58
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Originally Posted by gettinbumped
You won't make it to 95. Life expectancy of "the average Joe" isn't relevant. Take a look at the life expectancy of a long haul airline pilot.
Originally Posted by airspeed1974
Is there any website that shows this? Due to radiation or fatigue?
From a physiological standpoint, cardio events spike upwards beginning in the mid-40s and cognitive decline begins in the 50s, indicating the retirement age should be lowered if we were basing this strictly on safety.
02-24-2015, 06:29 AM
#59
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
ALPA did not allow anything. ICAO issued a ruling that pilots could fly to 65 and the FAA agreed those pilots could fly in US airspace. Prior to this the FAA had won the many age discrimination law suits on the basis of safety. That argument was now dead since the FAA had just agreed it was safe. There were several lawsuits and legislative action in the works to raise the age to 65 or eliminate the retirement age completely. There was zero chance of preventing it from going to 65. ALPA did the smart thing and tried to shape how the age change would be introduced to do the least harm. They were successful in that. Fighting it would have only ended in thousands of pilots already over 60 coming back to work and furloughs for junior pilots.
02-24-2015, 06:33 AM
#60
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Originally Posted by XHooker
ALPA did a very poor job of telling that side of the story and as a result, a lot of pilots will forever blame ALPA for age 65. The information battle a key part of the war for hearts and minds.
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