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Originally Posted by ockham
(Post 103861)
The combined age of two required pilots must not exceed 104 years if one crewmember is over 60.
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Originally Posted by org1
(Post 104515)
How do you account for the fact that some older guys are better than some young guys ever were or ever will be? Not saying all, but some. I know guys that are in their late 50s that could lose quite a lot of ability and still be above the average. What about them? One size does not fit all. There are guys that should quit at 60, there are others that should have never started in the first place. Does the term "professional co pilot ring a bell?" I'll take a good old guy over somebody that's never been better than marginal regardless of his age.
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Originally Posted by Lab Rat
(Post 105755)
I remember hearing something about the combined age in the cockpit, but couldn't remember the specifics. One thing puzzles me though: if all of the proponents of age 65 say that safety isn't compromised by allowing someone to fly past age 60, then why not have two 64 year-olds in the cockpit at the same time?
The one pilot under 60 would be a "transistion" rule, although I would suggest it will take several years to change. JMHO. |
Originally Posted by Lab Rat
(Post 105758)
I would say because most (of the ones you refer to) have spent the majority of their careers flying non-glass cockpit/non-FMS type aircraft. I'm not saying that glass-pilots are weak by any means, just that the round-dial guys (and gals) have learned and practice a lot of techniques that cannot be or are hard to acquire in the magic jets.
It would be interesting to hear how many of the people that say experience does nothing for safety or competence have: had a blown weather forecast at the destination AND the alternate and had to hand fly the approach to whatever weather there was at the time; flown single pilot IFR professionally; had an emergency requiring a landing 10 minutes ago; had to argue with a flight follower (or owner of the company) that the flight wasn't going because of safety concerns; had to argue that "yes, the freight is going to be bumped because I don't trust the forecast and want the fuel"...you get the picture. Some things have nothing to do with wiggling the controls but have lots to do with having experienced some or all of them before. Experience is not just "flying along watching the autopilot." |
Originally Posted by org1
(Post 105775)
Experience is not just "flying along watching the autopilot."
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Originally Posted by org1
(Post 105649)
Andy, you're the one using said data, so why not give us a footnote, reference, link....something to prove it exists. Is this military pilots, civilian pilots, private pilots, ATPs, all pilots, what? How old is the date? Who gathered it? Give us a hint.
I have sat through several classes which compared accident data to number of hours flown. The graphs were similar in both military and civilain statistics. Do you think that 1500 hours for an ATP is just another arbitrary number chosen by the FAA? No science behind it; they just pulled the number out of their skivvies, just like age 60? |
Andy, YOU'RE the one spouting statistics and studies to support YOUR position. Since you're the one using them, roll 'em out or quit using them. I don't have to prove anything. It's your burden to prove your point.
Originally Posted by Andy
(Post 105917)
Are you too lazy to prove me wrong? :D You go ahead and search for data that says differently.
I have sat through several classes which compared accident data to number of hours flown. The graphs were similar in both military and civilain statistics. Do you think that 1500 hours for an ATP is just another arbitrary number chosen by the FAA? No science behind it; they just pulled the number out of their skivvies, just like age 60? |
Originally Posted by org1
(Post 105929)
Andy, YOU'RE the one spouting statistics and studies to support YOUR position. Since you're the one using them, roll 'em out or quit using them. I don't have to prove anything. It's your burden to prove your point.
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Originally Posted by Andy
(Post 105957)
So, what's my incentive to provide this data to you? More insults from you?
If it's an insult to be asked to provide references to "studies" you're using to prove your point that a pilot's peak of competence is at 1500 hours, you better grow a thicker skin, cause you're going to be called on statements like that whenever you make them. |
Originally Posted by org1
(Post 105963)
What insult? You call me "old timer" and tell me to "hang it up" and I'm insulting you? Come on. I'll make it easy. Forget the studies, just show me how I insulted you.
Originally Posted by Orion
(Post 105426)
Looks like a pilot with a lot of book knowledge and studies, but no real practical experience to back it up. Andy you are so hardcore on not accepting this change I think you will say just about say anything if you think it makes your case sound better.
Unfortunately, no breakdown on this study between <1500/>1500. However, the point is graphically illustrated. There are other studies in GA and the military that break it down better. I've sat through several CFI refreshers (& a few military briefings as a UPT IP) using charts showing the high accident stats at less than 1500 hrs flight time. |
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