Are we arguing about the RLA or your statement about your union treating you like stepchildren? I'm arguing about the latter point. The RLA sucks. You won't hear me defend it.

All regional airlines don't have to leave the "union," which I assume you mean to be ALPA. Just the ones that feel they are being treated unfairly can leave. And they certainly do have the freedom to vote out ALPA or whoever and vote a different union in. We're all lucky we weren't born in Dubai, or we wouldn't even have that choice, or likely a forum to complain on.

Carry on.

You're kidding, right? A citizen of Dubai (or the UAE) has incredible opportunity in life. Not that I am saying that is better than being an American, but it certainly isn't a bad thing to be a citizen of the UAE like you are making it sound.


TP

Without arguing whether there areas so called subsidies, I think I got it. Your arguments appear to be the amount. Subsidies are ok, like Capter 11 and government charter flights, etc., but just the size of of a so called subsidy. Small ones ok, as long as a subsidy doesn't gouge your ox. Thanks for helping me understand your position better. That old Eastern hangar given to AirTran by the city of ATL, was just a little one, the fifth runway in ATL, just a small one, and terminal F doesn't really help Delta, now does it? Yeah, I did forget, United was much much better off at Stapleton than DIA, for any expansion. But these are all tiny little deals by governments and they don't count, now do they?

I guess it depends on how much one values their freedom?

How much money did the United States government give Delta, American, and United (combined) when they went through their Chapter 11 reorganizations?

Skyone, did you read the paper from beginning to end, linked above?

You'll note in the paper that there are several comments concerning landing fees. In the United States, airports have to cover their costs by charging landing fees, right? These fees (and I'm sure other tertiary taxes and fees) cover the cost of building and maintaining the airport, paying interest on the airport's bonds, etc. If you look at figure 14 in the paper, it shows that the landing fees at the ME airports in question are a FRACTION of hub airports in the United States and Europe. It mentions in the paper that Dubai has even admitted the landing fees it charges don't cover the cost of capital. It amounts to a subsidy worth 100's of millions of dollars to the big ME 3. It costs 3500 hundred bucks to land a 777 at Dubai, and $12,000 to $14,000 grand to land a 777 in ATL or SFO. Yeah, nothing going on there.....

So let's see, United "gets" DIA, Delta "gets" an extra runway and has to PAY for their "gets" through landing fees and taxes that cover the cost of those "gets." Emirates, well, they get a big, shiny, gleaming airport and significantly discounted landing fees courtesy of the Sheikh. Yup, sounds fair.

Now, if the Big ME 3 want to argue that AirTran got an old hangar and that's a subsidy, well, they'd be right IMHO. But if we were just talking about old hangars, I don't think we'd be here having this discussion, would we?

Might make for an interesting discussion beyond the topic at hand, but what exactly is "freedom"? I lived there for 11 years and did not feel that I was not free. Could I bad mouth the Sheikh in public? Eh, probably not, but if you worked for a corporation and bad mouthed your boss in public would you still have a job at the end of the day?

Again, not saying it's better than the USA, but certainly a far cry from what you are trying to imply.

One of the true definitions of "freedom" is that you would be "free" to leave, no strings attached, right? Ever seen what the U.S. government will charge you if you try to leave the USA for good, as in relinquish citizenship.


TP

Not that I like defending the Middle East carriers, but let's be honest. I'd say the elimination of millions upon millions of debt in Chapter 11, plus the forced "renegotiation" of lease terms and rates of other services, is not much different than the government actually giving airlines money. Our bankruptcy laws are a joke.

When I refer to the union, I'm talking about all of them that represent the regionals, ALPA, Toonsters, FAPA,etc.

They all suck or did you not realize that? Who do the 19000 regional pilots go to? The unions are just a tool for management in their whipsaw games.

Born in Dubai!? Ignorance is bliss. :D (see TP's post)

Carry on.

What about five year residency requirements in order to get hired at USA airlines? I believe it is a U.S. postal requirement and nearly all airlines haul the mail. Do EK pilots meet that restriction?

Who paid for all the airport improvements to accommodate the flying forehead? Did the ME3? methinks not.

You're welcome. Another sole benefit to foreign carriers courtesy of the American taxpayer.