The Emirates Advantage… Not just subsidies
 

Then throw in a guess how much most of their ground personnel earn. I cannot speak for Emirates since I didn't have the opportunity to speak with their people directly; however, when I lived there I spoke with security guards, people who worked on my villa, and people who worked in the mall -- they typically earned $2000 to $4000 a year, had their passports taken from them, and lived in spaces that would make the most ghetto crash pad feel like a palace. The way the oil monarchies treat their imported labor is criminal in most western countries.

A good friend of min from college is a capt at EK. Last I talked to him he was frequently getting whipped to 100 hours a month of flight time. Reports of the company not paying guys for anything beyond guarantee too. Said he had flown with an FO the week prior who had flown 93 hours and paid only his monthly guarantee. No Union, no labor laws to defend him either the way he explained it, and those stories aren't unique from what he said.

Everything you two say…. is true. Sadly….

This kind of thing won't stop until there is a global aviation policy maker (C'mon ICAO) who can regulate the industry as a whole.

I must be pretty lucky. I have been here 7 years and have never gotten 100 hours of flight time nor have I had any pay errors either.

Just to play Devils advocate: I was in Montego Bay a cople years ago and asked if the agent would like something from Anne's pretzels. I got her some little pretzel bites. Turns out they cost about a half a day's pay for her...

And I work for an airline based in the US

I'd like to know if the contractor UAL uses in India pays a " living wage" to their below wing employees. Doubt they're making $US17.50/hr.

Be careful. Advocating regulation on a board full of GOTP pilots will make some heads explode.

United Airlines I guess is having some troubles complying with crew legalities under FAR 117 as well. Caught a blip of that on the news today.

What's interesting about the WSJ article is that it states, "Ismail Al Balooshi, director of aviation safety affairs at the General Civil Aviation Authority, the U.A.E.’s airline regulator, said in an interview he would now investigate allegations that state-owned Emirates isn't fully reporting pilot duty hours......" Tee-hee-hee.

Why Tee-hee-hee? If you look at the mafia, eh, I mean ruling family flowchart in the whitepaper exposing the subsidies to the Big ME 3(page 64), it shows how 3 guys basically control just about everything in Dubai. Ismail Al Balooshhi (mentioned above) works for the director of aviation safety affairs at the General Civil Aviation authority, which is the UAE's airline regulator. He's going to "investigate" the alleged problems at Emirates.

Wait, it gets better. Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum is the President of the General Civil Aviation authority. Guess what else Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum is? A Chairman at Emriates!! You can't make this stuff up. Remember how I posted United is in a bit of trouble right now too with the FAA? It would be like Jeff Smisek (United's CEO) being the FAA administrator AND senior management at United Airlines. I wonder how impartial an investigation that would be? And, of course, Smisek would have ruled unions illegal, so pilots would have to shut up or risk losing their jobs (at a minimum).

To investigate the above mentioned problem at Emirates, Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum can just call himself up and say, "Self, are there any problems at Emirates with their flight crews, and my, you're looking good today!"

"Thanks Sheikh. You're looking good today too! I just did a thorough investigation of myself and found no problems."

"I thought so Sheikh. D**n those WSJ reporters with their free press. They had no idea what they were talking about!"

"Yes Sheikh, I know! By the way, while I have you on the phone, please keep another 2.4 Billion handy just in case our fuel hedges go sour again in the future, OK?

"No problem Sheikh, you handsome devil! I keep some pocket change like that around just for the occasion! No worries!"

"Thanks Sheikh, good bye!"

"Too-da-loo Sheikh! Talk to you soon!"

It's good to be the Sheikh.

Actually thats incorrect. Sheik Ahmed is head of the Dubai Civil Airport Authority which manages Dubai Airport. He is not the head of the GCAA.

A more correct analogy would be if the CEO of Delta were in charge of the Airport Authority that managed ATL.

Moto…

If you've ever flown a ULR… you've flown over 100 hours and simply get paid for, but not credited for it due to "factoring" (time not counted for bunk time towards the max 900 yearly limit). EK guys routinely have over the mandated limit of 900 hours per year because of this reason. I know some who've shown me they have upwards of 960 due to ULR flying….

EK runs its op like Ryanair…. and use the 777 in a way I doubt Boeing really designed it to be used. 30 minute turns in some cases, to 16 hour ULR's in others. Think you get some recovery time off after your 32 hour ULR? Nope…. 2 days and then go out on an Indian subcontinent all night turn. Maximum 15 days off per month…. period, no exceptions! Maximum of 5 days off in a row per month from bidding… period (unless you can trip trade but only to 7 days maximum which is next to impossible due to all of us being so tightly scheduled, there's no maneuvering room to really trade for more than about 1 day).

It's a slave ship anymore sadly and it really used to be a good place to work until the bean counters all got noticed about 3-4 years ago.

Kap

So your break time during the flight isn't counted as being on duty? Or do they subtract it from your block time? That's crazy.

I think the easiest way to combat the ME3, (which was mentioned in the other thread), is to start interviewing and hiring all the US guys that work there that want to come home. They aren't going to be able to find the amount of pilots to go work there that they have in the past with the legacies hiring like they are. If we start hiring their current pilots too, they don't stand a chance of staffing their airline into the future. That is the best way to put the screws to their plans.

I'm assuming you work there KL, what percent of their pilots are American? Would this affect them like I think it would?

What percentage of those flying those big shiny new jets in the sandbox are willing to come back here for a paycut and to throw gear on a small narrowbody? I am guessing it isn't that many guys.

I hope EK goes under.

Big E 757 & Bender....That is a great idea and frankly I think it really would work in severely crippling Emirates fight operations, for longer than one might think. At Emirates here, there are approximately 400+ Americans (in 2011 & 2012 we were the largest nationality group percentage wise, currently the Brit's are) and most of us are not happy with the way things are going. Of those 400 or so, I would say easily half would go back to a Legacy job tomorrow if given the chance, and upwards of 2/3's would leave within the next year or so (there are several financial incentives at the 5 and 7 year mark seniority wise.) Now, for the crippling part. Emirates is struggling to staff aircraft right now, and whats more alarming is they are also having a difficult time finding quality applicants that can pass the 4 day interview. Last week only 2 out of 2 groups of 8 made it, and thats a fairly typical pass rate these days (have a very good buddy in recruiting.) So, loosing 200 or even just 50 in a one month period or so would cause aircraft to be parked, as there is no "fat" staffing wise. I have not flown a flight in at least 6 months where leaving has not been the constant topic, cabin crew included. As Kapitanleutnant said, this once was a decent place to work but greed has gotten the best of them and most of us just want to watch the place burn now.

Do you have your applications in here?

Same here. First topic before getting on the bus leaving the briefing room, "So, are you going back to the States?". Constant from cabin crew and flight deck, and I think more and more are looking at options back home. It is surely going to be an interesting couple months, as many are waiting for certain announcements (ie. profit share, pay rise, etc.). We have enjoyed our time, but certain buckets are filling up quickly.

Yes. DL, UAL, AA, and UPS.

I hope you are here soon. And when you do get hired, be sure to give them notice when you are sitting in your airplane seat to come back. :) Or don't even call. Just don't show up.

Thanks man...Don't worry, very few Americans that have left or are planning to leave, have or intend to give them the "required" 3 month notice despite a big financial penalty. The thought process being, money can be recovered later but seniority cannot.

Same here. Apps in at DL, AA, AS, SWA & UA.

In addition to hiring the US expats, our companies should go for a one time only hiring of the Brits and Aussies. Not sure if a work visa here would be possible. Shut the bastards down overnight.

An additional effect would also be that they'd then be forced to hire replacement pilots from other foreign carriers, thus further helping US carriers.

This should be done soon though before they get their in house cadet training spooled up.

Nope, I'm pretty sure I am correct. He's president of the Dubai Civil Aviation Authority which regulates aviation in Dubai. Further, Sheik Ahmed is ALSO Chairman of "Dubai Airports Company" which sets airport fees and charges and is responsible for airport infrastructure which is overseen by.........wait for it.......the Dubai Civil Aviation Authority. When you're the King, eh, Sheik, you pretty much run everything.

Good luck to all of you over in the Sandbox that have aspirations of leaving. Unlike some I don't hold it against you for going over when things were so rough here.

And yeah, I can't phathom why the U.S. legacies aren't sucking the ME3 dry of pilots. Stopping the ME3 expansion is one of the few topics where both management and pilot unions are unified, so you would think.......

One reason as to why they aren't being sucked dry is attitude. From a friend I know that does interviews at a US Legacy has said that the few guys that have interviewed from the ME3 have come off with very entitled or cocky attitudes.

I have ton's of friends over at EK and I wish for them to come back home sometime soon. Hopefully the bad impressions that have been encountered will be forgotten and the good guys over there can make it back sooner than later.

93hour lines. 18-24 hour layovers after ULH flights. Multiple polar trips. All night turns to India. Yeesh. Sorry flying ain't worth that...

Spread the word over there. Interviewing like that is just STUPID beyond all belief.

Confidence is one thing. Entitlement or cocky is something completely different.

Edit: One more thing. Nobody here cares if you throw gear or are a captain on a 380 or 777-300. Nobody. Because you ain't gonna be doing that here. You are probably gonna be throwing gear on a 717/320/737 or maybe a 75-767. Flying the giant forehead ain't impressive enough to get you hired if you act like it makes you Niel Armstrong.

A cocky attitude is NEVER a good thing, regardless if your interviewing somewhere new or at your current place of employment. I'm really disappointed to hear your friend has had this experience so far. I can assure you that an overwhelming majority (at least at EK) aren't this way at all. Everyone I know from here that has interviewed at a US Major has gotten hired (about 10 or so in the last year.) Not saying we don't have our village idiots, but a large majority are stellar guys and gals that I look forward to sharing the cockpit with again.

Good luck!

I know Spirit has hired a few from the ME3.

And our iPads, iPhones, clothing, and shoes are made in Chinese sweatshops where they make a dollar a day and we buy them without complaining for $400.

:rolleyes:

ShyGuy,

And everyone one of those Chinese workers is better off than they were before working making clothing, iPhones, iPads, etc. and every Westerner who bought those items has the savings from buying (enter country) goods that are less expensive than if produced here. It's called comparative advantage and, ever since Ricardo postulated the theory we've all, Chinese, Vietnamese, and a Western have been better off.

GF

PS: His theory also killed off the English landed aristocracy.

Or Neil Armstrong. ;)

Carl

Umm,mmm No Global. The Dubai Civil Aviation Authority is responsible for managing and running Dubai Airport. The GCAA which covers the UAE is the aviation regulator. Shiek Ahmed is the head of the Dubai Civil Aviation Authority.
You might want to try Google sometime, it really works.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gener...tion_Authority

According to the flow chart, the Dubai Airports Company builds airport infrastructure and sets fees and airport charges. Since the Dubai Civil Aviation authority has oversight of the Dubai Airports Company, then true, the Dubai Civil Aviation Authority directly/indirectly (it all leads to the same guy, does it matter?) runs Al Maktoum International Airport at Dubai World Central in Jebel Ali, Dubai International Airport, and Dubai Cargo Village though the Dubai Airports Company. If you follow the lines, they ALL lead to Sheikh Ahmed.

Apparently there is a GENERAL Civil Aviation Authority and a Civil Aviation Authority. That I did not know. I can't find the connection, but I suspect the GENERAL Civil Aviation Authority falls under the Civil Aviation Authority, because the Civil Aviation Authority, "undertakes development of air transport industry in the Emirate of Dubai and oversees ALL aviation related activities." I also suspect it falls under the Civil Aviation Authority because the Civil Aviation Authority reports directly to Sheikh Ahmed. After all, he's president of the Authority. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected. In that case, the Civil Aviation Authority maybe goes to one of the other Sheikhs or just follows another branch to Sheikh Ahmed.

If, worst case(!), the GENERAL Civil Aviation Authority traces to another Sheikh, wanna bet Sheikh Ahmed has the guy on his speed dial?

I myself was disappointed to hear that perception was being received in a legacy airlines hiring department. Considering the fact some of my best friends are over at an ME3 carrier, it was not the response I was looking for. Now how big of an impact will this have over the long run? For the good guys over there I hope it will be a non-event. I of course passed this along to them as well as here as we all know that it is good to be aware of all things that could prevent someone from coming home.

Just to clear up your confusion:

The United Arab Emirates is a country comprised of 7 Emirates, Dubai is one of those. The UAE GCAA is the regulatory body that overseas aviation in the UAE. It is headquartered in Abu Dhabi. Here is their website:

https://www.gcaa.gov.ae/en/departmen...partments.aspx

The Dubai Civil Aviation Authority does exactly what Whip says. Here is their website:

https://www.dcaa.gov.ae/sitepages/en/internet.aspx



TP

The Big 3 management teams are very threatened by the ME3. I hope they figure this out soon. It wouldn't take to long to bring the whole house of cards down.

But I wonder, after a couple hundred left to come back, would there be any blowback on the remaining pilots over there as they tried to leave? They confiscate your passport when you return "in country", correct? Is there any way they could force guys to stay or turn the screws on guys vis a vi changing the rules for leaving...refusing to handover retirement savings and such?

I'd be worried if a lot of guys started leaving a few months before my exit. Good luck guys. If I knew anyone in management here I'd start hinting about this but unfortunately, I don't.

The bigger question is do they use the same source to supply their harems?