Accepting an offer - time?
 

I've been lurking for a while, but having just submitted my apps I figured it's time to seek out a few answers to some still lingering questions. My biggest is the length of time given to accept an offer if I'm lucky enough to be granted one. For DAL and UA, is there a max length of time you can wait before you have to accept an offer and start training? I understand waiting is definitely not a good idea if you can help it due to the huge loss of seniority, but due to a few issues in my current job it may be to my benefit to do so. Just wondering if there's any flexibility - 1 month, 6 months? Or do you have a limited number of class start dates you can turn down before you have to go? Thank you!

For my airline it's 1 class. You can defer once class date and after that you have to reapply. I'm guessing extenuating circumstances would be evaluated on a per case basis.

Can you post or PM your airline? Thus far I've only applied to Delta and United.

I think you need to be clearer on the extenuating circumstances. Tons of ex/retired military on here. If you're in Leavenworth, that's a little different from an active duty service commitment. Also, I believe as part of the application process, both airlines require you to tell them your earliest availability, which is also in your best interest.

I'm at Delta, but was hired a long time ago. There will be new guys who can marshal your question better than me.

Accepting an offer - time?
 

Yes, I'm on mil duty but can end when I want. I really am asking for some personal reasons and curiosity. Thanks!

It seems that there's about a 2 month wait, or more, between a job offer and the start of class at DAL. I can't think of a single good reason why you would extend on active duty, versus accepting the first class date offered, if you can get out at any time.

Accepting an offer - time?
 

Cool, thanks for the info.

I love the mil guys that come on here and just assume they will have multiple offers to choose from. Meanwhile you have tens of thousands of current airline guys with thousands of hours of 121 experience just hoping to get a call by one legacy carrier.

Arrogance much? You'll fit right in a delta.

Birth of a child perhaps? Not wanting to be caught out with zero medical coverage? Or finishing 20yrs. Or a pending home sale, or or or.

Delta called me on Wednesday morning, asked if I could be in class on Friday morning. "Yes Ma'am!". Then I had to figure out how to quit my freight job while on a layover. :eek:

When I showed up for class on Friday morning, I was invited to Snake Smith's office to explain how I left my previous job. Seems the Chief Pilot had called Delta and told them how I quit on a layover, and what a butt hole I was. :D

I told Snake, "Every airline pilot I know has told me, 'Never give up a class date, that could mean the difference between making Captain or staying F/O for YEARS!".

Snake smiled, shook my hand, and said, "I think you are going to have a fine career here at Delta Air Lines, now get on back to class.".

Sorry to offend, I thought I made it clear I had no such assumptions when I stated "if I'm lucky enough to be given [an offer]." I feel this thread is causing more trouble than I would have liked. I'll ask the mods to delete. Thanks for the data though :).

Don't let that one tool bag put you off, he's just jealous. :D

Thanks man. And thanks for letting folks know sometimes there are important reasons to delay, not all of which are controllable!

There's a good chance your previous employer wouldn't hesitate for a second to furlough you to save a penny. Good choice.

Perhaps the reason you have not been called is reading comprehension. I suggest you go back and carefully read his post and then put a apology on here.

Maybe you better rethink that.

The military "guys" sacrificed their comfortable way of life so that you can sit here and enjoy all the freedoms they have fought for.

They deserve, more than A-N-Y-O-N-E, to have multiple offers from the top companies. If I were a recruiter, I would offer employment to all these heros FIRST!

I am glad they come on here expecting multiple offers. They deserve it.:)

TEN

As prior military I did have multiple offers. And multiple TBNTs. And have posted before how RJ folks really excelled in training. But to the point of timing, go to the first class offered and leave if a better offer comes along. If you have to put them off be straightforward but do not give excessive information. Just ask, if they hired you they want you to come to work there. Having said all that get there as fast as you possibly can. Good luck.

Jim, don't let folks with personal issues bother you. You didn't sound arrogant and your question was legit and similar to one I had back when I was in your position. I was fortunate to receive multiple offers and got to chose which company I worked for. That's not always the case and I'll be the first to admit I was extremely lucky.

Not sure about UAL, but if you get invited to interview at Delta they will ask your no kidding availability in the interview and have you write it on your app that you sign in front of them. If offered a CJO, they will ask if you have any major life events or issues in the next 3 months when they call to offer a training class.

Free advice (and it's worth what you paid for it), take the first class avail and tell Uncle Sam thanks for the memories. You did your time, but the reality is nothing you do for your job or the unit you are with will be remembered after you leave. The machine keeps rolling along. You however stand to lose a ton in seniority, especially at the rates the majors are hiring at right now. Making sacrifices for career number one could seriously impact career number two for years to come, both financially and in quality of life for you and the family.

Good luck with the transition.

I wouldn't worry about it, I didn't think you came across the wrong way. Some people are just super sensitive, you know these days everyone has to get a trophy. :rolleyes:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4...fhi2o1_400.gif


I second (and share) this opinion wholeheartedly. I will gladly let them in line ahead of me and also have a few choice words ready for anyone who would say anything negative about it, too.

Thanks Buck, those details are a big help and not something I've been able to find through the usual searches. Your advice is very much appreciated as well - if I was still in a squadron I'd happily get you a beer from the bar. Since I'm unfortunately not I'll just have to say I owe you one. My fingers crossed during the waiting game, thanks again!

Thanks man! I'm always afraid of hostile internet forum responders, so I try to minimize offensive comments to avoid the resulting flame wars. Takes away from the help and learning us rational folks use forums for.

I will lead with, YES, jealousy is part of it.

That said I was lucky enough to get to the place I hope to retire but many of my 121 friends have not been lucky enough to get even a call for an interview while they keep plugging away in trenches making the majors billions while they make poverty wages for longer than a decade.

As far as military guys giving away acomfortable way of life- maybe all the military guys I know and have flown with have downplayed their sacrifice but most of them painted life in the military as pretty cush except for the time away from family on deployments (I agree, that is a huge sacrifice), but otherwise they never really had much to worry about. Then they come out with a lifetime pension, healthcare, and multiple employment offers. Pretty good for 20 years. Shiit my wife's grandmother still shops at a base commissary subsidized by my taxes and no one in her family has been in the military in decades.

I flew with a guy that was in the army as some sort of trigger puller and he said that basically 90% of all branches of the military are support staff. They never leave the base and are never in harms way. I just wish I found out all the perks before I was too old because I always viewed the military as similar to saving private Ryan. Modern military is not like that for 'most' is how it's been explained to me.

Don't employers get some tax incentive for hiring veterans too? That clouds the best candidate decision if you ask me. Very little of the military flying translates to 121. Not to say it can't be learned but you have thousands of guys already working in the system that can hit the ground running.

I can think of countless guys that would leap at the first class date they could get in this very competitive environment and we have a guy who has only applied to two carriers and then is asking how to delay accepting the job if they can. Maybe it wasn't meant to be but I sounded arrogant as many military guys have similar questions. I guess it's not their fault because they just don't know much about the airlines but that's kind of my point and it's just so competitive these days.

I'll quit whining now

Is this a joke?

I don't think you're whining. There's a lack of understanding and experience on both sides. Military guys don't know the industry and the industry doesn't know the military side. I went mil to a 121 regional and it was a relatively easy transition for me.

I can't speak for all airframes, but there's a vast difference between flying A to B on a jet with an FMS and excellent autopilot with MFD's and doing a 300AGL low-level route in formation hand-flying through an airdrop with flaps out on Night Vision Goggles.

Accepting an offer - time?
 

The gist of your post is that you are saying that mil dudes should get in line behind regional dudes for jobs at the majors because their flying experience doesn't translate to the 121 world. I can tell you that there's a lot of truth to that assertion, but I can make a nuanced argument about the subject because I've done both. You haven't done both. You've heard some stories second-hand, but you don't know. My personal opinion on the subject of you running your mouth about the subject--and you can take it or leave it--is that you really shouldn't run your mouth about the subject.

Oh, and I have to point out that you said that military pilots didn't really make any sacrifices except for when they went on all their deployments and had to be away from their families for weeks/months/years at a time. Yeah, I can see how that really isn't much of a sacrifice. Not compared to being in the trenches at a regional I suppose. GMAFB.


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For what it's worth, I learned way more about, leadership, airmanship, performing under pressure, working with a crew, dealing with outside agencies, and general knowledge about the flying world at UPT and my first year of flying the KC-10 then I did instructing or flying for a 121 carrier. Having said that, I have gotten to work with some of the smartest, most motivated and hardworking pilots in equal number on both sides of the fence. Hope to get a chance to fly with you guys at a major in the next few years!

Although I'm quoting you from this morning, I was thinking there wasn't a military related reason. The ones you came up with are certainly valid, just not something that occurred to me at 5 am.

You need to quit typing.

However, the OPs time in the military in some way helps to ensure you have the freedom to say what you want.

What were you doing up at 5am, if you weren't in an airplane being paid??:eek:

Just arrived from Joburg? ;)

F-15E, New hire to Delta, start Monday...when I left the interview last month, the folks in the hiring department stated they were going to only start calling and interviewing guys that were able to start class within 60 days from the interview date. Not sure if they're still sticking to that, but that was the stated plan. Cheers and good luck.

Thanks for the nod. For most of us ret/ex mil, just a simple thanks goes a very looong way. Special priviledges...no...we'll earn our way, but the thanks is really appreciated. Thanks Again, safe flying.

"cush"
"never had much to worry about"

you, sir, are a horse's ass.

I knew my comments might ruffle a few feathers but I'll stand by them. I'm sure my choice of words could have been better but it is what it is.

I respect those that choose to serve in our volunteer military.

Do I think it's fair to be given special treatment for a second career when also having a life pension and full medical after only 20years? No, but life's not fair.

Addressing the latter part of your post...they just played the game as presented. It's neither fair nor unfair. Just fact.

Don't like it? Talk to your congressmen/representatives and convince them to drive a change.

You do realize folks who served and sacrificed for fewer than 20 years left with no pension and no medical. No 401k, no matching contributions...

Good luck with your inferiority complex.

Nothing will ever beat the "golden children" that joined the ANG out of high school, went to local college for two years, went to cadets, back flying heavies or fighters for a time... bingo, airlines at 23-24.

Ouch! I'm former military (non-aviator type) but you have to admit they get outstanding training and fly some excellent equipment and basically are a "known entity". Personally speaking, they do come up a little short when it comes to real-world(Civilian) flying. There is a learning curve for them but they are sharp and learn it quickly. They will always be stiff competition to a civilian only pilot. That's just the way it is.

Q,
You do realize that that is the carrot that keeps just some into 20 at all right. In your world, everyone would do what, just the minimum and get out after enlistment? If so, how you compensate for those that spend their youth defending the country? If there is no pension, no 401K matching, no medical, are they just supposed to do the duty and move along?
All I can tell you is that if that is the deal you propose it will actually cost ALOT $$$ more to get people to reenlist/commit to risk their life for the defense of the country.

Every year, a good percentage of great Americans (some who know what trenches really are) leave the military with less than 20 years. Under normal circumstances, those in that category do not receive any pension or medical. Regardless of retired or not, it is not special treatment.

By the time an active duty military pilot can resign, he (or she) already has 10+ years of service. I say military pilot, but that is secondary to our main role. The main role is military officer. That job entails several leadership positions.

After 10 years, that is quite a bit of experience leading, something that any corporation might desire. If a service member does 20+ years, well, that is more leadership experience with greater responsibilities.

Every so often, we get to go fly a plane. That flight could be obtaining a new qualification, upgrading one of our peers, teaching a student military aviator, combat support, combat, etc.

Before any of that happened, we had to become a military pilot. That is a long and tough path, where a decent amount attrite early on. It is no hidden secret what that training entails.

My guess is that many airlines are aware of the above. Leadership traits in the air and on the ground. Not only that, but successfully completed military flight training (~18-24 months).

It is not a civilian pilot verse military debate. We are all pilots, and the airlines hire future Captains. Since we all meet the minimums, then how does an employer rack and stack? Go for the pilot with the most hours or the most well-rounded pilot?