Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Major
Pilot Shortage And The Legacy Feed >

Pilot Shortage And The Legacy Feed

Search

Notices
Major Legacy, National, and LCC

Pilot Shortage And The Legacy Feed

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-10-2015 | 01:07 PM
  #31  
Banned
 
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
From: A320 F/O
Default

Originally Posted by Andy
So where are US citizens going to build up their time? 250 to 1500 hrs (for ATP) takes some time. I would have thought that ERAU would have more than enough US citizen grads to fully staff their CFI needs.
I just talked to an ex ERAU CFI. Said there are a lot of lifers there. Guys left to the commuters and couldn't do it, came back to ERAU.
Reply
Old 05-10-2015 | 01:24 PM
  #32  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,213
Likes: 14
From: guppy CA
Default

Originally Posted by inline five
I just talked to an ex ERAU CFI. Said there are a lot of lifers there. Guys left to the commuters and couldn't do it, came back to ERAU.
Ouch. Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University Salaries | Glassdoor
Money's not everything, but being a CFI for life is not even going to pay your student loans.
Reply
Old 05-10-2015 | 03:04 PM
  #33  
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,537
Likes: 0
From: Downward-Facing Dog Pose
Default

Originally Posted by inline five
I just talked to an ex ERAU CFI. Said there are a lot of lifers there. Guys left to the commuters and couldn't do it, came back to ERAU.
Also guys who can't get a 1st or 2nd class medical. I know of at least one but have heard there are more.
Reply
Old 05-11-2015 | 09:59 AM
  #34  
Gets Weekends Off
Liked
25M+ Airline Miles
Line Holder
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,823
Likes: 167
From: window seat
Default

Originally Posted by todd1200
I could be wrong, but I took the author to mean that Legacy airlines were exposed to the risk of shortage due to their regional feed. When Connection/Express carriers can't attract applicants, Legacy passengers will be affected. I don't think the author of the article was saying that mainline carriers will directly experience a shortage of applicants. LCCs are exposed to less risk due to the fact that they operate all of their own flights and don't have to worry about regional partners staffing their flights.
That's also what I thought it was saying. But I disagree with the conclusion. So what if a few tiny markets disappear? It won't be many. So much of the RJ glut is the failed Fred Reid et al model of "the businessman likes frequency!" of hourly flights from every hub by every airline to every city. It was stupid then and its even dumber now. There is still a LOT of slop that can come out of the regional so called "feed" system.

There is also a lot of regional capacity that can be replaced with mainline on a 3 to 1 savings for staffing.

Other than perhaps dinging the 100% completion and on time fantasy metrics, we're no where near a regional pilot supply crunch actually endangering the legacy airlines.

Besides, legacy airlines can ramp up LCC pilot hiring any time they want to. Now THAT could crush more than a few business models out there.
Reply
Old 05-11-2015 | 10:01 AM
  #35  
Gets Weekends Off
Liked
25M+ Airline Miles
Line Holder
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,823
Likes: 167
From: window seat
Default

Originally Posted by SayAlt
Glad you liked it. I'll keep posting more as I come across them. Just for you.
That's cool. Just don't hold your breath waiting for legacy collapse because of a regional pilot crunch, cause it ain't gonna happen.
Reply
Old 05-11-2015 | 10:45 AM
  #36  
skypilot35's Avatar
Line Holder
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 622
Likes: 1
From: It's hot out here.
Default

United has over 10,000 applications on file. I would imagine Delta, American, Alaska, and Hawaiian are in a very similar state. There is no pilot shortage at the majors nor will there be for a very long time. The regionals are crying because the bar has been raised to the minimum. If starting pay at a regional was $45K and average pay was $85k the regionals would have no staffing issues. A college graduate with a technical degree should not have to collect food stamps for his first 2 years after graduation.
The pipeline of qualified applicants is drying up. There is very little incentive for someone to start training today for an airline job.
Given the current state of this industry, when I am asked, I strongly deter anybody from starting to fly as a career interest. Hobby, absolutely. Business expedience, absolutely. Career, NFW!

Last edited by skypilot35; 05-11-2015 at 10:47 AM. Reason: grammar
Reply
Old 05-11-2015 | 12:07 PM
  #37  
Sr. Barco's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 500
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by skypilot35
United has over 10,000 applications on file. I would imagine Delta, American, Alaska, and Hawaiian are in a very similar state.
Most agree it's the same 10,000 applicants to all companies. With 21,000 retirements in the next 10 years they will need more applicants.
Reply
Old 05-11-2015 | 01:05 PM
  #38  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 514
Likes: 0
From: Left seat of a Jet
Default

Originally Posted by skypilot35
United has over 10,000 applications on file. I would imagine Delta, American, Alaska, and Hawaiian are in a very similar state. There is no pilot shortage at the majors nor will there be for a very long time. The regionals are crying because the bar has been raised to the minimum. If starting pay at a regional was $45K and average pay was $85k the regionals would have no staffing issues. A college graduate with a technical degree should not have to collect food stamps for his first 2 years after graduation.
The pipeline of qualified applicants is drying up. There is very little incentive for someone to start training today for an airline job.
Given the current state of this industry, when I am asked, I strongly deter anybody from starting to fly as a career interest. Hobby, absolutely. Business expedience, absolutely. Career, NFW!
Many twenty somethings I personally know are busy preparing to buy houses, new cars, and investing in their retirements. I know no one interested in taking flying lessons from this age group, but they always ask me what for? they're not interested in flying for fun unless it pays big money out of the gate.
Reply
Old 05-11-2015 | 01:59 PM
  #39  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,213
Likes: 14
From: guppy CA
Default

Originally Posted by Sr. Barco
Most agree it's the same 10,000 applicants to all companies. With 21,000 retirements in the next 10 years they will need more applicants.
21K pilots. That sounds like the approximate number of regional pilots. If regional airlines disappeared, bringing all of that flying back to mainline, would anyone be upset?

IF a shortage did materialize (that's a big if), there would probably be a few regionals, LCCs, and ULCCs that went out of business due to them not being able to hire pilots at food stamp wages. I don't see a problem here.

Majors that pay good wages won't have problems recruiting pilots. Airlines that can't compete with living wages will go out of business. It sounds like Sun Country (I thought they went out of business years ago) may close its doors because management says that they can't pay their pilots higher wages. Sun Country Airlines owner warns of possible shutdown | Duluth News Tribune
After looking at their pay scales, Sun Country needs to be shut down. And every single pilot there could find a higher paying job somewhere else.
Reply
Old 05-11-2015 | 02:02 PM
  #40  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,145
Likes: 12
Default

Originally Posted by Andy
It sounds like Sun Country (I thought they went out of business years ago) may close its doors because management says that they can't pay their pilots higher wages. Sun Country Airlines owner warns of possible shutdown | Duluth News Tribune
After looking at their pay scales, Sun Country needs to be shut down. And every single pilot there could find a higher paying job somewhere else.
This is capitalism at work, shut it down if it will be unsafe or unprofitable. Or raise prices. System works as designed.
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices