FAA Jumpseating in and out of DFW
 

Has anyone else that commutes or flies in or out of DFW frequently been having a lot of FAA guys taking the jumpseats? I have never seen anything like it in over 20 years commuting. Apparently they are now doing a lot of their training here now and using the jumpseats to get them here. DFW-ATL is probably one of the toughest commutes in the industry and these guys are taking about half of the jumpseats to DFW every Sunday and Monday and the same out of DFW every Thursday and Friday. I know they are allowed to ride whenever(as I was told yesterday by the slob that took my jumpseat 2 hours before departure, that it's not OUR jumpseat but theirs), but they should not be using the jumpseat to get to training. IMHO, this is stealing from our airlines(or air line if you're Delta)and they should be buying a government fare ticket.

Bring it up to your Jumpseat coordinator as well as your company rep. Hopefully they have a good relationship with the POI and can find out more details.

If it's not legitimate, authorized business then they shouldn't be using the Jumpseat.

They are required to do X number of line checks/cabin checks a month. If that effects your commute...oh well.

Wow.......

Did you wake up and want to be on the tool of the day thread?

I'm a DFW commuter and I haven't seen this yet. I'm hoping that I don't in the future.

I guess opposing the APC "groupthink" gets you an automatic nomination.

I understand that, and if they were airline inspectors that would be fine. But this is everything from guys assigned to GA, Mx guys and everything in between. What they are doing is using it for company business. IE: Get to training free vs their office buying a ticket. Several of them have told me that they would rather ride in the back but the supervisor makes them JS for budget reasons.

Actually had an issue with this several months ago...two FAA guys on the first two ATL-DFW FLIGHTS...third flight had delta dude reservation. I was standby for it until an FAA guys assumed it was "HIS". He did not identify himself to me nor did he have any ID on display. It devaluated into an ugly mess. CPO involved, Jumpseat committee notified, reports filed. Found out that they have been doing it ALOT. MY brother-in-law is big Whig with FAA in DC. He told me long time ago that unless they are on "official business" then they DO NOT have the right to bump you off the jump seat. Having worked for the FAA during furlough, I understand the mentality of quite a few of them... Band Camp with Authority. Some of them are GREAT....but unfortunately, many have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to pilots. As far as I'm concerned, which matters very little, they should be using their government credit cards and buying tickets. Nerd...I will have to give you the full scoop next time our paths cross...

Typical non-commuter answer.

Typical commuter response.

Then either don't commute or get a job with home basing. Simple.

DW,

I talked to the duty pilot and he agreed with everything you said and was filing a report himself. I emailed Alpa and filed a FCR. There is a pattern of abuse by them and they are stealing from the airlines, imho.

They should make it so that they are only allowed to sit in the jump seat to do official line checks and those line checks need to be set up with their cmo office. Similar to the way ATC does their fam flights now. They abuse their power to use it as a "commute".

Hahaha, yeah real simple. So simple I would have only had to uproot and move 3 times in 4 years because of base closures and displacements. I tried the living in base thing until they closed that too.

Question: Would you guys let an FAA guy ride in the cockpit if he had a goatee?

How much discretion do the 121 guys have with a Fed riding the jumpseat? In other words, does the captain have any input if he/she feels that there might be a situation that appears the feds are just abusing the system and not buying a full fare ticket? Can the captain deny the jumpseat request?
just curious..

thanks

Yeah, I lived in 7 different bases. Not by choice either. Maybe you were given the golden card and can't comprehend why many of us commute. I can guarantee you that those who choose to commute make the choice because that's their only option. Having a Fed ride in the JS and bumping a commuting pilot just because the Fed needs to be somewhere is wrong. That's just as bad as a PS pilot giving up their seat to take the JS and bumping another pilot out of the JS. The JS is for observing and pilot "commuting". Nothing more.

That stinks if they are using the jumpseat for anything other than company business. It always gives me a chuckle to when guys that know nothing about flying a plane give us a checkride. They check your pilot medical and certificate and then give you a checkride. All so they can ride for free.

Do you work for legacy AA? If not, definitely give them a call, you would fit it perfectly with the old timers' culture.

And how many pilots have used the jumpseat for vacationing? Saw lots of that going to Hawaii and Alaska.

FAA inspectors are authorized to ride the jumpseat to conduct route checks. Doesn't matter if they're GA or whatever. They're authorized and they have higher priority than you.

Ever see a Captain deny a Fed? No way and you never will.

Get over yourselves.

Yes I have, if the FAA guy is not a safety inspector. Non-safety inspectors do not get priority over pilots going to and from work according to the Delta FOM. I always ask if I'm working a flight. I have been both a commuter and non-commuter.

Yes I have denied one over a beard issue.

Not allowed per our FOM. Kicked three of them off for it. The 4th went into the lab and shaved it off.

I too have seen it, ATL-->DFW.

Luckily, the gate agent noticed and told me the FAA guy wasn't a Safety Inspector. I had higher priority as a pilot commuting home than he did, doing 'whatever.'

I went back to the plane and told the captain about the situation; the FAA guy backed down and said he'd try another flight. (His first was an rj that cancelled.) Later, in flight, at my suggestion, the non-commuting captain checked Chapter 4 in the FOM. I was correct, lucky, and in the seat. :D

(Speaking of "get over yourselves," how's your buddy Mullis doing? :cool: )


DFW

The FAA does all currency training for General Aviation Inspectors out of Alliance Airport in Fort Worth. This means every quarter, about 700 non-airline regular FSDO inspectors need to get to DFW. They travel in the jumpseat legally because they are actually officially providing an observation report each time. Many of these people have never even seen the inside of an airline cockpit, though they are pilots. It is legal loophole they are exploiting. They did it in OKC too until AA got lawyers involved and filed suit.

I know all this because an FO I have flown with used to work over there....perhaps we should get the airlines involved. FYI though - I am DFW based and have yet to have one of these people on my JS. I thought maybe it wasn't that big of an issue until now.

Or maybe it wasn't that big an issue until the OP got his feelings/ego butt hurt.

Kinda what I am thinking.

We had one of our Captains do just that. He was wearing too much cologne. I kid you not. Left him at the gate.

You spend any time in the left seat? Deny a Fed no way? Never will? The Captain controls that seat without exception. Now, the only reason I'm challenging your words are simple: Captains authority cannot be abrogated - by anyone - even the FAA. If the PIC believes, and can articulate if needed, his or her reasons for the refusal - then that's his or her call. Period.

Call it butt hurt if you want. The DFW commuters have been dealing with this for months and are ****ed. Both the Delta and AA pilots I have talked with. This needs to be handled like the OKC issue was. 700 a quarter not buying govt. tickets is also a revenue hit to the airlines. Thanks for that info.

According to the former ASIs that I have asked since reading this thread today - - no one except Safety Inspectors (not counting the ATC people) should be trying to jumpseat. If they do jumpseat - they should be showing you a -110A ID (not just some badge that they are issued).
So...very interesting if the story is correct and some FAA guy that WAS NOT an ASI was trying to jumpseat.

What exactly defines "official business"? Can it be a last minute decision which girlfriend the Fed want to err visit or do they have a schedule-like lesson plan when and where to jump seat? Can we assume that they only work from 9-5 or is there more "flexibility" to suit their needs?

Thanks for bringing this up!

A pilot. Probably bitter about a b scale. Needs to screw others to make him/her feel better.

I've heard this many times from the guys, they're going to inspect an operation and their boss says go JS your way there. They have no choice. I think some are over sitting up front but don't have a choice, their enthusiasm is low.

Although there was one pilot on this site that got a full blown checkride from an FAA guy who wasn't even an inspector. Even concluded the ride with "okay guys, first thing is you passed..."

Passed? WTH are you talking about?

FAA has an office where I live but do simulator observations where I am based and where I commute to. They will commute and do multiple observations over several days staying in a government paid hotel.
On particular guy doesn't like to stay in the hotel so he commutes on the jumpseat every morning and jumpseats home in the evening.
Is this an abuse of his privilege?
If so, who do you complain to?

The Jump Seat belongs to the Administrator (FAA) too bad if you dont like it. When an FAA Inspector takes the JumpSeat and bruises your Fragile Ego THAT is just the way it goes. If you want to get a copy of the Pilot Bill of Rights in mail just try to deny the jump seat and see how it plays out.
14CFR Part 25.785
(l) Each forward observer's seat required by the operating rules must be shown to be suitable for use in conducting the necessary enroute inspection.
14CFR Part 121.547
(c) No person may admit any person to the flight deck unless there is a seat available for his use in the passenger compartment, except—
(1) An FAA air carrier inspector, a DOD commercial air carrier evaluator, or authorized representative of the Administrator or National Transportation Safety Board who is checking or observing flight operations;

The Seat is for "The Administrator" FAA ASI

Using facts with some of these butt hurt pilots is like trying to teach a pig to whistle....

Its a waste of your time and it irritates the pig.

However, THANK YOU for presenting the facts in a manner even the lowliest pilot can understand. You do have to pierce the ego, however, and that may be the greatest challenge.

Not if he's submitting route evaluation paperwork on every flight. That's just the way it goes.

You are interpreting your own facts to support your personal conclusions. If you read the rest of the 121 reg he quotes all it presents is a list of persons authorized to access the flight deck. It in no way says the Administrator owns or otherwise controls who sits in cockpit Jumpseat and in which priority. Saying you're stretching is putting it mildly.


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