Delta: The New Jaguar
01-27-2007, 07:29 PM
#1
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Delta: The New Jaguar
Just like your new Jag/Ford, Delta is destined for the scrap heap of failed 20th Century Corporations. Whether it is USAir (AKA America West, the actual viable carrier) or Texas Air (AKA Continental, but we are so polite and allow them full brotherhood RIP: TIA, Eastern, Frontier, New York Air, Peoples, etc), Delta will go away and be gobbled up; its just a matter of time. Remember those great Lucas Electronics attatched to a nameplate? Thus is the Delta on the buttons of the pilots lining the wall of the courthouse. "Keep Delta My Delta" . The only reason those pilots still have an airline to ride on to court is the iineptitude of their competition, EAL and Southern.
And in retrospect, what is lost? Over the last 20 years all Delta has really contributed is their competion at ATL (AirTran ne. Valujet which DAL so graciously gave a leg up to). I can only hope our brothers extend the same respect to DAL as was extended to PanAm in their hour of need. Or Not.
Finally, lets hope the acquiring carrier is a true Union Shop where all the working men and women (not just the pilots) can have an equal and equitable share in the sucess of the New Delta.
And in retrospect, what is lost? Over the last 20 years all Delta has really contributed is their competion at ATL (AirTran ne. Valujet which DAL so graciously gave a leg up to). I can only hope our brothers extend the same respect to DAL as was extended to PanAm in their hour of need. Or Not.
Finally, lets hope the acquiring carrier is a true Union Shop where all the working men and women (not just the pilots) can have an equal and equitable share in the sucess of the New Delta.
01-28-2007, 03:51 AM
#4
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: 7ERB
Posts: 142
Originally Posted by coyote
Just like your new Jag/Ford, Delta is destined for the scrap heap of failed 20th Century Corporations. Whether it is USAir (AKA America West, the actual viable carrier) or Texas Air (AKA Continental, but we are so polite and allow them full brotherhood RIP: TIA, Eastern, Frontier, New York Air, Peoples, etc), Delta will go away and be gobbled up; its just a matter of time. Remember those great Lucas Electronics attatched to a nameplate? Thus is the Delta on the buttons of the pilots lining the wall of the courthouse. "Keep Delta My Delta" . The only reason those pilots still have an airline to ride on to court is the iineptitude of their competition, EAL and Southern.
And in retrospect, what is lost? Over the last 20 years all Delta has really contributed is their competion at ATL (AirTran ne. Valujet which DAL so graciously gave a leg up to). I can only hope our brothers extend the same respect to DAL as was extended to PanAm in their hour of need. Or Not.
Finally, lets hope the acquiring carrier is a true Union Shop where all the working men and women (not just the pilots) can have an equal and equitable share in the sucess of the New Delta.
And in retrospect, what is lost? Over the last 20 years all Delta has really contributed is their competion at ATL (AirTran ne. Valujet which DAL so graciously gave a leg up to). I can only hope our brothers extend the same respect to DAL as was extended to PanAm in their hour of need. Or Not.
Finally, lets hope the acquiring carrier is a true Union Shop where all the working men and women (not just the pilots) can have an equal and equitable share in the sucess of the New Delta.
Interesting. Just pulling something out of your butt, or are you basing this on some sound logic, in depth research, and inside information?
In the unlikely event that USAIR is allowed to takeover Delta...Delta survives (the name, the company...etc minus 10,000 workers). If the takeover is denied...Delta survives. What was your point again?
"Thus is the Delta on the buttons of the pilots lining the wall of the courthouse. "Keep Delta My Delta" . The only reason those pilots still have an airline to ride on to court is the iineptitude of their competition, EAL and Southern."
That's a good one. Hmmm, maybe DAL was a better airline than them... It's a free country, so anyone can start an airline to compete.
"And in retrospect, what is lost? Over the last 20 years all Delta has really contributed is their competion at ATL (AirTran ne. Valujet which DAL so graciously gave a leg up to). "
How exactly can you stop that? Airtran/JetBlue rose from the ashes of 9/11 because of their cheap labor and niche markets. They did an outstanding job of exploiting the weakness of the largest competitors. Things have changed. The huge restructuring (thru bankruptcy) by DAL/UAL/NWA, has erased many of the advantages they had. The playing field has leveled. DAL is not the same company that you love to hate.
"Finally, lets hope the acquiring carrier is a true Union Shop where all the working men and women (not just the pilots) can have an equal and equitable share in the sucess of the New Delta."
The pilots at Delta are basically the only ones to CHOOSE to have Union representation. The other workers can do the same if they wish. I don't get what you are saying here.
ENGINEWHO...you are correct, Definitely a Flame Bait post.
01-28-2007, 05:37 AM
#5
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Originally Posted by whitt767
In the unlikely event that USAIR is allowed to takeover Delta...Delta survives (the name, the company...etc minus 10,000 workers). If the takeover is denied...Delta survives. What was your point again?
I take it that your humble opinion is they will. Short term you are right. But you see Ford getting gutted 20 years after Toyota started to take market share away. 10 years after Ford and GM started their great "recovery" after the last downturn in their industry. Ford's decline accelerated the last 2 years.
Some think, after Delta gets out BK, they will eventually have an "accelerated" decline. IMHO It's not a matter of if, but when.
You ask for evidence. There is none. Just assumptions and projections. Things could change. Management and labor might be able to turn it around. But I think it may take another BK after this one. Remember USAir's second BK?? CAL went from boom to bust now boom again. But they have some issues threatening them too. Are costs at DAL low enough to work in an enviroment with CAL and UAL? If not, how are they going to get there. You'll see AA's struggles too.
Last edited by Gunter; 01-28-2007 at 05:43 AM.
01-28-2007, 06:06 AM
#6
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Position: 7ERB
Posts: 142
Originally Posted by Gunter
His point (assumption) is Delta will not survive. His humble opinion.
I take it that your humble opinion is they will. Short term you are right. But you see Ford getting gutted 20 years after Toyota started to take market share away. 10 years after Ford and GM started their great "recovery" after the last downturn in their industry. Ford's decline accelerated the last 2 years.
I don't think the Auto industry the Airline industry are good comparisons. The US airline industry is competing against other US competitors. The US auto industry is competing against foriegn-govt. supported manufacturers. Very big difference. As far as retirement and benifits, many of the big US airlines have cancelled the expensive, defined benifit retirement programs. The auto industry is struggling under that now.
Some think, after Delta gets out BK, they will eventually have an "accelerated" decline. IMHO It's not a matter of if, but when.
Your opinion...noted.
You ask for evidence. There is none. Just assumptions and projections. Things could change. Management and labor might be able to turn it around.
The ball is in management's court. Labor at DAL has done its part. Management is the key.
But I think it may take another BK after this one. Remember USAir's second BK?? CAL went from boom to bust now boom again. But they have some issues threatening them too. Are costs at DAL low enough to work in an enviroment with CAL and UAL?
Yes...I think. According to their POR, we'll be able to compete effectively with anyone.
If not, how are they going to get there. You'll see AA's struggles too.
I take it that your humble opinion is they will. Short term you are right. But you see Ford getting gutted 20 years after Toyota started to take market share away. 10 years after Ford and GM started their great "recovery" after the last downturn in their industry. Ford's decline accelerated the last 2 years.
I don't think the Auto industry the Airline industry are good comparisons. The US airline industry is competing against other US competitors. The US auto industry is competing against foriegn-govt. supported manufacturers. Very big difference. As far as retirement and benifits, many of the big US airlines have cancelled the expensive, defined benifit retirement programs. The auto industry is struggling under that now.
Some think, after Delta gets out BK, they will eventually have an "accelerated" decline. IMHO It's not a matter of if, but when.
Your opinion...noted.
You ask for evidence. There is none. Just assumptions and projections. Things could change. Management and labor might be able to turn it around.
The ball is in management's court. Labor at DAL has done its part. Management is the key.
But I think it may take another BK after this one. Remember USAir's second BK?? CAL went from boom to bust now boom again. But they have some issues threatening them too. Are costs at DAL low enough to work in an enviroment with CAL and UAL?
Yes...I think. According to their POR, we'll be able to compete effectively with anyone.
If not, how are they going to get there. You'll see AA's struggles too.
Consolidation is the key. If DAL can spurn USA, then I expect them to merge with someone. Again...Delta survives.
01-28-2007, 06:19 AM
#7
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Just a wild guess- Coyote was turned down by Delta (and all the other majors) at one time, and has an axe to grind. He has an opinion- he may be right, but I don't think so. There's not a whole lot there to back up his position, so its tough to give it a second thought.
Coyote, as you pilot your 727 across the skies, I hope you feel better having gotten this off your chest. Sorry, though, it's not going to be disturbing my sleep tonight.
Coyote, as you pilot your 727 across the skies, I hope you feel better having gotten this off your chest. Sorry, though, it's not going to be disturbing my sleep tonight.
Last edited by CVG767A; 01-28-2007 at 11:44 AM.
01-28-2007, 07:27 AM
#9
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Posts: 394
Originally Posted by CVG767A
Sorry, though, it's not going to be disturbing my sleep tonight.
But if you have any buddies from the few that Delta allowed to crossover from PanAm, you might ask them how they were sleeping back in 1991.
01-28-2007, 07:48 AM
#10
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Help keep delta my delta. What a joke. Help keep pan am my pan am, help keep western my western. I remember a time when DAL was so arrogant as to not allow jumpseaters when their pilots where jumpseating on EAL and Pan AM(at least they got something changed except it must be reciprocal). Now that the tables are turned and DAL has a reality check. Their crews are running for cover and complaining. Its called competition eat or be eaten just like DAL did to the aformentioned. I think its great that this industry is finally going to get consolidated. Just like oil,banks, phone companies etc.Does it make it right? I don't know since it appears to be happening anyway. At the very least, for once we can move forward and stop being divided as in I got mine you'll get yours. yes the is a good bait thread but people seem to forget about Braniff, EAL, Pan AM, Western, Piedmont, Hughes, TWA, NY AIR, People and others(the employees were dedicated too). Get the point! All of the legacy carriers benefited from some form of consolidation. Now DAL suffers from the same mismanagement and they want protection, tough luck. That has been the nature of our business.
I have been in this business a long time and with a lot of airlines. I just know from the past that others forget about some fine people/companies until certain events transpire and then it's like oh how could that happen to us. Good luck in today's airline environment . Fly boxes in my opinion is the way to go. Even then its not a lock.
I have been in this business a long time and with a lot of airlines. I just know from the past that others forget about some fine people/companies until certain events transpire and then it's like oh how could that happen to us. Good luck in today's airline environment . Fly boxes in my opinion is the way to go. Even then its not a lock.
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