Airline Pilot Central Forums - Burning Through Your Alternate Fuel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rvr1800 (Post 2048891)

Correct me if I'm wrong (I probably am) but I don't think there is ever a requirement to add an alternate once you are enroute. Now I'm not saying it's a bad idea. It's a very smart idea. But there is no legal requirement to.

Plenty of aircraft flying around without ACARS so they can't update the destination weather until in range of the broadcast weather.

121 requires it (also requires contact with company dispatch, which is how you learned that the destination wx was headed south before we had all the comms technology).

Back in the day it was primarily a DX function, since they could get the latest DEST WX while you were in enroute.

Nowdays with ACARS it seems that I often catch it by pulling METARS before DX tells me. Then I tell DX how much fuel I have and he does math and provides an alternate. If there's no suitable alternate then it's diversion time.

Back in the day, the engineer called Dispatch and got the hourly weather reports. Also, did the handwritten fuel log and called in the Captain's decision to divert and where we were headed..

Gramps, GF

Is there a socially acceptable time frame for the phrase "back in the day?" Like if I started flying for the airlines in 2007 I can't really say "back in the day" because it sounds relatively recent. But a guy that started flying at the airlines in the 80s can say back in the day. Is there an acceptable cutoff for most people?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShyGuy (Post 2049821)

How about if you've ever crewed a non-augmented 3 pilot airplane.
707,727,DC-8,DC-10.

Or flown /A jets and had to fly airways/VOR/NDB rather than the magenta line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swedish Blender (Post 2049829)

How about if you've ever crewed a non-augmented 3 pilot airplane.
707,727,DC-8,DC-10.

Or flown /A jets and had to fly airways/VOR/NDB rather than the magenta line.

What's an NDB? :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by VegassBus (Post 2049852)

What's an NDB? :)

Acronym. Stands for "Not De Best"....

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatNavy (Post 2049058)

Why don't you go argue it with the FAA. This is what they say about it, which is opposite what you keep claiming.
"Regardless of whether you are dispatched without a designated alternate airport, you must consider a possible missed approach at the destination airport (note that the rule does not say missed approach at alternate destination airport) in your required fuel calculations."
"Finally, if you fail to consider the missed approach at the destination airport factor listed under § 121.647(c) in your fuel computations, you are in violation of the Federal Aviation Regulations."

here is the link again

I used to fly an airplane that had an AD that required us to delay using flaps unless landing was assured. In other words, you had to see the airport. If it was 3000ovc and 10 miles you didn't need an alternate but this FAR applied and required us to calculate the missed approach fuel burn because of the AD. It is apple and oranges when it comes to a go-around. We are discussing the OP's concern of burning into the 45 min reserve which is clearly allowed, including go-arounds and no extra go-around fuel is required to be carried for that. This ruling clearly applies to missed approach fuel (which may be significant) and not go around fuel.