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Old 01-17-2016 | 04:45 AM
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Let's assume I work for an airline with no specific fuel policy. There is nothing in the GOM.

I am looking for a reference in the FAR's for fuel on board at landing / bingo fuel.

I was always taught, in FAA land, that if you hit your bingo fuel, you have to divert, no ifs or buts.

Common sense tells me, however, that if I for example am at min fuel and have to go around at my destination airport because of separation issues (and not weather), I rather commit to my destination, burn through a little bit of my alternate fuel, do the go around and land with plenty of fuel at my destination. The "legal" alternative would be to fly to my alternate (which may be a single runway airport with issues I am unaware of at the moment of decision and no option and less fuel once I get there).

Is it my at the discretion of my best judgement or not? Any FAR's you can quote?

I would appreciate if you could abstain from comments like" ask your chief pilot" or "did you not go through basic indoc?" or "you should not be a captain".
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Old 01-17-2016 | 05:00 AM
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I don't ever recall seeing "you must divert" anywhere in the FARs.....it talks about how much fuel you must have when you leave to go somewhere, but the decision on how to use the fuel on board is up to the PIC. If you really want to blow your hair back consider that you're not prohibited from burning into your Reserve either.
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Old 01-17-2016 | 05:28 AM
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FAR fuel requirements tend to apply to planning, usually before you go but could apply to in-flight planning...for example if the DEST goes down while enroute and now you need an ALT, at the moment you select that ALT, you must meet the usual alternate fuel requirements. But in the split second after the ALT is officially designated, you can do whatever the heck you want as long as it's reasonable and rational and not 91.13-ish.

Basically the FAA wants you to have a practical plan and the fuel to execute it before you go. Once airborne you can adjust as desired.
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Old 01-17-2016 | 05:59 AM
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Fuel management definitely qualifies as a core airmanship and judgement skill. Just as stated above, fuel required is very black and white during the planning stages. It becomes much more subjective once the flight has begun.

For example, and as you know, the basic domestic fuel requirements during preflight planning state that the flight must have enough fuel to fly to the destination, continue on to the most distant alternate (if required) and then fly for an additional 45 minutes (reserve).

Once preflight planning has been completed, the fuel has been loaded and the flight has departed however, it now becomes the responsibility of the Pilot and the Dispatcher to monitor the fuel on board as the aircraft proceeds toward its destination and to confirm sufficient fuel remains to complete the flight safely.

The purpose of reserve fuel is to allow continued safe operation if the flight encounters unanticipated delays or circumstances. In flight, reserve fuel may be used to meet such circumstances with no legal consequences. All flights should normally be managed so as to land with reserve fuel unused, however, use of reserve fuel is at the Pilot's discretion provided the flight can be completed safely. Reserve fuel use does not in itself, make completing a flight unsafe.

In your case above, if you arrived in your terminal area and need to go around, don't think of it as dipping into your alternate fuel at "bingo". Think of it as dipping into your reserve fuel, which is not necessarily unsafe (see above).

What I have done in the past is, after arriving at the destination terminal area and we are holding or other unforeseen delays are happening, I confer with my dispatcher and either 1) delete the alternate if it's no longer required, or 2) chose a different and closer alternate. This will effectively put more fuel into your reserve column.

So there is planning and actual. Once airborne, manage your fuel so that you land safely "somewhere" if it comes down to that. Remember you have other tools in your Arsenal. Min fuel and emergency fuel declarations to ATC. If it comes down to this, and as long as the weather conditions are not beyond your safe landing capability, use em. Works good, lasts long time.
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Old 01-17-2016 | 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
FAR fuel requirements tend to apply to planning, usually before you go but could apply to in-flight planning...for example if the DEST goes down while enroute and now you need an ALT, at the moment you select that ALT, you must meet the usual alternate fuel requirements. But in the split second after the ALT is officially designated, you can do whatever the heck you want as long as it's reasonable and rational and not 91.13-ish.

Basically the FAA wants you to have a practical plan and the fuel to execute it before you go. Once airborne you can adjust as desired.
Correct me if I'm wrong (I probably am) but I don't think there is ever a requirement to add an alternate once you are enroute. Now I'm not saying it's a bad idea. It's a very smart idea. But there is no legal requirement to.

Plenty of aircraft flying around without ACARS so they can't update the destination weather until in range of the broadcast weather.
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Old 01-17-2016 | 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
FAR fuel requirements tend to apply to planning, usually before you go but could apply to in-flight planning...for example if the DEST goes down while enroute and now you need an ALT, at the moment you select that ALT, you must meet the usual alternate fuel requirements. But in the split second after the ALT is officially designated, you can do whatever the heck you want as long as it's reasonable and rational and not 91.13-ish.

Basically the FAA wants you to have a practical plan and the fuel to execute it before you go. Once airborne you can adjust as desired.
Hard to understand your views after reading the above. As I mentioned in my post above, alternate and reserve fuel is for preflight planning requirements. Once the flight has started, no requirement to obtain an alternate exists. Getting one is smart, and having the fuel to get there, is what I call "a plan".
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Old 01-17-2016 | 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by rvr1800
Correct me if I'm wrong (I probably am) but I don't think there is ever a requirement to add an alternate once you are enroute. Now I'm not saying it's a bad idea. It's a very smart idea. But there is no legal requirement to.

Plenty of aircraft flying around without ACARS so they can't update the destination weather until in range of the broadcast weather.
In the 121 world you are required to maintain communication channels with your company either through AIRINC or ACARS or some other approved method while airborn.
You can not continue to your destination if your alternate has dropped below alternate mins. This would be a time where you would add/change and alternate while airborne.
As previous posts have said. There is no requirement to land with the reserve fuel. It's for you to use if needed with no strings attached. In the case of going around at min fuel it seems safer to stay in the pattern and keeps eyes on the airport than bug out and go to an unknown alternate miles away.
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Old 01-17-2016 | 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by sandlapper223
Hard to understand your views after reading the above. As I mentioned in my post above, alternate and reserve fuel is for preflight planning requirements. Once the flight has started, no requirement to obtain an alternate exists. Getting one is smart, and having the fuel to get there, is what I call "a plan".
The FAA legal team disagrees with you. They say it's a requirement in this legal interpretation.
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf



Here is another good one kind of related to OP's question. Most people don't pay attention to the 121.647 requirements (after all, it says shall "consider") but in the following legal interpretation shall consider means you will have fuel on board for those circumstances. The one that surprised me...lets say you are dispatched with no alternate. You end up having to go around and get back in the sequence. You dip into your reserves due to the go around/missed and vector back around. FAA says you are in violation because you have to have fuel for a go around/missed at your destination, even if there is no alternate required, and that reserve fuel can't be used for that instance since the planned amount has to take that scenario into account.
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf
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Old 01-17-2016 | 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BeatNavy
The FAA legal team disagrees with you. They say it's a requirement in this legal interpretation.
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf



Here is another good one kind of related to OP's question. Most people don't pay attention to the 121.647 requirements (after all, it says shall "consider") but in the following legal interpretation shall consider means you will have fuel on board for those circumstances. The one that surprised me...lets say you are dispatched with no alternate. You end up having to go around and get back in the sequence. You dip into your reserves due to the go around/missed and vector back around. FAA says you are in violation because you have to have fuel for a go around/missed at your destination, even if there is no alternate required, and that reserve fuel can't be used for that instance since the planned amount has to take that scenario into account.
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf
I don't think this says what you think it says. In the end it says specifically ..." On the other hand, there would be no illegality in using any or all of the 45-minute fuel supply required under § 121.639(c) provided that such use became necessary as a result of circumstances or events not reasonably foreseeable despite full compliance with §§ 121.639 and 121.647."

These ruling talk about reasonable expectations of missed approaches. Not unknowable go-arounds.
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Old 01-17-2016 | 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by JustAMushroom
In the 121 world you are required to maintain communication channels with your company either through AIRINC or ACARS or some other approved method while airborn.
You can not continue to your destination if your alternate has dropped below alternate mins. This would be a time where you would add/change and alternate while airborne.
As previous posts have said. There is no requirement to land with the reserve fuel. It's for you to use if needed with no strings attached. In the case of going around at min fuel it seems safer to stay in the pattern and keeps eyes on the airport than bug out and go to an unknown alternate miles away.
Just looked it up and that's our procedure as well. If ACARS is inop we are recquired to monitor ARINC.

Now my question is, is this a shared responsibility of the flight crew and dispatch? Or is just dispatch supposed to be checking the weather while we are enroute and notifying us via ARINC if we need to amend our alternate? I'm sure it's in the books too but I don't have time to look through them right now.
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