Deny NAI failed, given final approval by DOT
 

Thanks Obama for the going away gift. Just another reminder how far out of touch the Democrats have become with labor and why they lost the election....

Globalization is a cancer. We will never be able to compete with other countries and their low wages.

Thanks Obama. I thought you were supposed to be our guy...I guess we can thank Jimmy Carter for deregulation and now this.

I bet this isn't the last Friday evening sell-out of this country by Obama. Good thing he doesn't have many Friday evenings left in power until he is relegated to the history books next to Herbert Hoover and Jimmy Carter in the chapter labeled "failed presidents".

I don't care enough to go back and look.... But I was trying to tell some ol boy that democrats suck just as much as republicans when it comes to airline labor.

***

You'd be a fool to go to United, Delta, or American if you have over 30 years left. You will not retire there.

Spirit, Frontier, JetBlue, Allegiant and SWA are now as good as it will get.

And none of the above will wind up paying what greyhound does now.

Thanks again, Barr

**

Correct. If one have the means I would seriously consider a career change. It's going to be that bad.

Yea, but the market is still on our side. Good luck staffing that airline when the legacy carriers pay double and destroy that place in work rules. Anybody dumb enough to go work there should be banned from ever getting a job at any US carrier.

You guys are funny! This career has always paid low wages, nothing new...There was a brief period in the early 2000's when UAL and DAL had good contracts and that didn't last long. Although the wages are decent now, there are no more pensions. At best, an airline career will give one a middle class lifestyle and that's about it. However, there are those that will retire wealthy relatively speaking but those are very few who made some good investment decisions. Norwegian is not the only problem on the horizon, there will be many other obstacles to face n it's not over yet. Having said that, an airline job is still not that bad of a career assuming one loves the profession.

The market is not on our side. The market is on their side. Are you actually saying this company will not survive because it wouldn't be able to find pilots? That's what's you're going to rely on?

Not only will NAI staff their airplanes easily, but now that this precedent is set they will be the first of MANY flag of convienence carriers which will collectively destroy United, Delta, and American.

You obviously don't understand the scope of this decision.

You're totally right! United is doomed. I think it's time to look into resigning instead of delaying the inevitable.

Nobody does. This baffles me. The biggest threat to all of our livelihoods and people shake it off. They think because there's a large number of retirements on the horizon that they're immune from bad times.

Look at the past 10 years, the 'lost decade' if you will. One unprecedented, unexpected thing after another. I don't understand why people think the next 10 years will be any different- like we're permantly over the hump and the next 10 years will be smooth sailing. If anything, it follows that the next 10 years will have unprecedented and unexpected events just like the last 10.

How many US cruise lines can you name?

There were plenty before they pulled this in the maritime industry.

Thanks Obama.

I hope no airline allows any Jump seating for their pilots.

Only one person ran as anti-globalization. Thank god he won.

Next up mass pardoning of illegals.

Puhlease...NAI won't affect anything. It's that god dam high speed monorail combined with teleportation tech that is going to screw us all.

I know you're being sarcastic, but the hyperloop is not a threat to the airlines. It's meant for commuting.

The legacies still have a robust domestic network that push people into the international markets.

The bigger issues will come when Spirit or another LCC team up with these international carriers.

The US legacies are buying back stock with their profits instead of investing in their product and CS. Read the NAI reviews, people love the carrier. They like the new equipment. Meanwhile AA is flying tired 767s around.

If the US carriers are losing business in this environment it's their own faults.

The nice thing, long term as pilots, is the jobs will still be there, just with another carrier. If you are a legacy pilot now, you will most likely be a shoe in for those new jobs. It might pay less, but you're probably going to be employed.

In the mean time, save your money and invest and you might not even need to find work when your job goes away. Use your spare time to fund another business. This job offers high pay and lots of time off, use it wisely.

Absolutely. They might not technically be scabs, but they are scab-adjacent for sure. Only scum will fly there. Spare us the "feeding my family" nonsense.

Awesome! I can be a 787 captain making less than a DAL 717 FO... WITH 10 days off to sweeten the quality of life! Zero benefits, no union protection, I mean is that not a sweet deal or what? What did the previous generations work so hard for?

In the mean time I can spend all my free time trying to start up a business so that when the current job I spent 20 years trying to get into goes away! Who wants to waste all that free time with family? I'm sure my kids will totally understand. Why would anyone do something so stupid as to squander all that opportunity at home doing time wasting acitivities like t-ball games and cub scouts?

Bro, thanks for the big picture! You should be on tour with Tony Robbins, seriously.

LULz, only in a place like NYC is a 6 figure salary considered "middle class" :rolleyes:

Great work ALPA. They supported Barry and Hillary because they are "labor friendly."

Why aren't cruise ships crewed with and flagged in the United States again?

Another stab in the back by Obama, a great parting gift to people who pay the ffn bills around here.

Thanks Obama.

Please. No more hyperbole about scabs. There is no such thing as 'not technically a scab' or 'scab-adjacent.' One is either a scab or not. A strike would have to exist and a picket line would have to be crossed in order for someone to be labeled a scab. There are no strikes and no picket lines to cross.

So...just to be clear, the only opposition to Norwegian is the fact that they have three divisions, one based in Norway, one in Ireland and one in the UK?

It certainly cannot be the pay because there has been no opposition to the DOT approving Eurowings, an alter ego carrier formed by Lufthansa that pays 15% less than Norwegian. It certainly cannot be because of contract crew members employed through agencies based in the far/middle east because China Southern, Hainan, Air China, China Eastern, Sichuan and WOW Airlines (just to name a few), all use employees contracted through agencies based in the far and middle east and had zero issues with DOT approval.

The issue is with the fact that NAI has been issued an AOC through a modern, western European Democracy, in full compliance with EU rules, and not in another modern, western European Democracy, in full compliance with EU/EEA rules?

Middle class?

I made over $300,000 this year in addition to the $50,000 they put in my retirement account.

We all know you want the job so just go get it all ready.......You clearly have no integrity.

Norwegian pilots may not be scabs but they will be treated as such by me. Low life scum of the earth sell outs.

I work at PSA and we fired a pilot going through training that was actively trying to recruit regional guys for Norwegian. I can only imagine they have guys doing the same at other regional airlines.

So what will you do to them, deny them jumpseats they are not entitled to anyway? Fly to Europe and egg their houses?

Given that all of them are European (so far), I do not think any of them care what U.S. pilots think of them.

^^^^Well done

I would like to sum up this entire thread in this one short video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFevxqmg92s

Much more interesting conversation in the Norwegian Air Explained thread at:
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ma...explained.html

It's called capitalism. Markets set the rate. Unions artificially inflate our wages at the major level. Look at Emirates pay, that's a pretty good judge of what market rates are. Emirates CAs make around $140k-$150k/yr on their widebodies and that is a fairly established airline, not an upstart like NAS/NAI.

I know the truth hurts but at some point we are going to have to face reality. We've been working in an environment with little outside competition unlike the rest of the citizenship. Yes, things will get worse in the future. Just take advantage of the money you are earning now and invest wisely.

I am a little upset as I've worked many years, and struggled with low pay for many years as well, to get to where I am today to "finally" start making decent money. It is what it is. You deal the hand you were dealt. Honestly I think going to SWA, jetBlue or Spirit is actually a better career choice long term than the big 3. They will grow, their brands are strong. The big 3 will most likely shrink over time, their larger legacy cost structure and management culture slowly suffocating them.

Norwegian offers a good, solid product, on new aircraft, for a good price. They are highly rated on customer review sites unlike AA, DAL, and UA. There is a reason people continue to purchase on them, and not us.

People like you....., people that refuse to be manipulated and actually think...., you apple pie and puppy haters.....! You need to be waterboarded with the Koolaid and never question the mighty ALPA propaganda......., never:D