Aaannddd it beginsss...
 

Did the giants finally win a game?

LOL finally?? they won 8 games so far this season

"Ah this is no big deal maybe a few widebody jobs will shrink"

-All of APC

You thought age 65 sucked? This is gonna hit us like a ton of bricks. The worst part is most of you woln't see it coming. Start working on a strong second source of income.

Sitting half way up the NK seniority list isn't looking as bad as I thought.

Raiders won 10 and that's saying something

It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World, indeed.

Incident: Norwegian B738 at Kristiansand on Nov 4th 2016, "racing start"

They'll be off to a "racing start"!

................

European budget carrier Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA will set up two new U.S. bases as early as next month after Washington approved the airline’s longstanding but contentious application to expand its service.

Norwegian Air spent three years trying to win approval from the U.S. for a new Ireland-based subsidiary to expand the discount airline’s international services. The plan divided the industry as airlines and labor unions on both sides of the Atlantic battled over whether it would increase competition or unfairly harm other carriers and their workers.

The U.S. Department of Transportation on Friday granted final approval to Norwegian Air’s application, two days after the European Union took the unprecedented step of accusing Washington of breaching the “open skies” pact aimed at liberalizing trans-Atlantic air travel. The EU said the U.S. had taken too long to rule on Norwegian’s application, a process that usually takes a few months.

Shares in Norwegian Air were more than 12% higher Monday, the first day of trading since the U.S. government decision.

Norwegian Air will set up a base at Stewart International Airport in upstate New York and either Portsmouth International Airport in New Hampshire or T.F. Green Airport near Providence, Rhode Island, Thomas Ramdahl, the carrier’s chief commercial officer said in an interview. The operations would be serviced by the Irish unit.

Norwegian Air operates some flights between Europe and the U.S. under bilateral arrangements between the U.S. and Norway, which isn’t an EU member. The airline said the Irish structure, taking advantage of more extensive EU traffic rights, will help it cut costs and offer more flights.

U.S. unions and lawmakers opposed to the deal called on President-elect Donald Trump to intervene and reverse the decision.

Lucrative trans-Atlantic flights have become a battleground between legacy U.S. and European carriers and upstart budget airlines, including Norwegian Air, which are offering cheap long-haul flights.

Mr. Ramdahl said flights from the new locations to Europe could cost as little as $69 one-way. Norwegian Air will use Boeing Co.’s new 737 Max single-aisle planes for those services. Each plane can seat up to 189 passengers.

Norwegian Air expects the tickets to fly from the new bases to go on sale early next year, with flights starting in June or July. The airline’s first two 737 Max planes are due in May, with four more to follow in June. Airline Chief Executive Bjørn Kjos has previously said U.S. approval of more flights rights could spur the carrier to buy more planes.

The airline also is considering service from Europe to Bradley International Airport outside Hartford, Connecticut, Mr. Ramdahl said.

Separately, Norwegian Air announced it would add 55% more flights to the U.S. next summer by boosting the frequency on existing routes such as London to New York, Los Angeles and Oakland. Those additions were planned ahead of the U.S. government’s approval.

Don't be so comfortable. Best thing for Spirit pilots is for Legacy carriers to have a vested interest in international travel. Last thing Spirit pilots want are Legacy carriers intensely refocusing on the domestic side

In a domestic flight to the death between UAL and Spirit, I'd take Ned's Kids any day.

Most of you aren't gonna wanna hear it, but LCCs are gonna be the place to be from now on.

What about the major airlines here that don't have wide bodies? We should be cool?

Spirit, Frontier, JetBlue, Southwest and Allegiant should remain relatively unaffected, assuming they keep within the US.

Jetblue CEO is pushing for 321lr flights to Europe

Anyone trying to predict the future of our industry on the macro level is an idiot. Many people far smarter than you have tried and failed.

Talk about a perfect case of drama queen talk.

At about $80 more an hour with the new pay raises for narrow body Captain, I think I'll stay put. UAL has more to fear from Trump's saber rattling with China than it does with Norwegian.

Spirit does what it does very well. UAL has recently adopted the Spirit model for Basic Economy because it seems a growing market for folks who are extremely price conscious. But far away the most profitable portion of UAL's market is made up of folks that aren't interested in the Spirit product. We will see....

The same was said in the early 2000's. I think most guys who bailed for the legacies from LCC's when the legacies started hiring again have no regrets.

The LCC segment will definitely see some consolidation in the near future as well.

Haha...Spirit has a product! Funniest thing I've heard all day.

There's nothing to predict. Spirit has an observable, competitive edge. If you had to bet, you would be foolish not to bet on spirit.

If you think I'm being dramatic, you simply don't fully understand whats going on. Companies rise and fall. Like I keep saying, how many US flag cruise lines can you name that operate today?

How many low cost US operated cruise lines are there?

You're correct. But step back a bit. Over 150 airlines have failed since deregulation -- most of them LCC's. No one is safe. But I'd bet on the stronger airlines with global reach and pricing power.

But that was because people thought they were gonna run the legacies out of business. That is not what I am saying. Norwegian will run the legacies out of business via the international market. LCCs will, by default, become the place to be because current cabotage laws protect Norwegian and the like from coming in and running them out of business too.

This company plans to expand on an impressive scale. And they wolnt be alone. This isn't really speculation, a previous iteration of this has already played out in the maritime industry.

There's a reason NAI wants to use flag on convienence to operate in the US, and it's not so they can put those ugly portraits on the tails.

"Global reach" as it applies in this industry is now just another word for codesharing, and if the legacies can't make money as an entity, it doesn't help them.

You need to get off the koolaide a bit. Even if the LCCs like spirit are the only ones to endure after companies like Norwegian become more prevalent I wouldn't say Spirit is THE place to be. At these wages it's not a career worth having, it's a job. I'm at spirit and if pay like this is the future I'm out. Hope to see you in FLL tomorrow at the picket unless that is you'll have you nose so far up Jyri's ass telling him this is the place to be. It's not!

I think this whole NAI debacle is gonna land up in a ticketing price war tactic. It is pretty much gonna come down to who has the deepest pockets and can bleed cash the longest. This time around, however, I can see a massive joint coordinated effort by the legacies to price undercut and drive this NAI cancer out. The only problem is, who will be next?

Not to be political but I would be very surprised if the Trump administration doesn't over turn this ruling..

I have a pretty good idea of what's going on. It doesn't involve, however, believing that the game has changed literally overnight.

The only bet I'll make on Spirit is one for a takeover. If this industry goes down the path you seem to salivating over, Spirit won't exist in a decade and you'd be foolish to think that will mean you'll be in a better place because of it.

This is the next big thing. Until his administration has a say in the matter, all of this is conjecture.

Just like Laker in the 80's. The legacies have some very deep pockets now.

We can only hope.

And we'll see how deep NAI's pockets are when the first global recession hits during their expansion.

I completely agree with you. I didn't mean it was going to be a worthwhile place to work. Relatively speaking, I think Spirit/Frontier/JB/SWA will eventually be the only choices we have. The one who pays the most will be the shiniest turd in the bowl if you like.

I don't work for Spirit, but I wish you gentlemen luck. I'm at a regional, and Im still deciding what the best way to play this is.

I thought only idiots make predictions in this industry?

It doesn't make me salivate, it makes me nauseous.

I agree but I think they're going to lose on international big time. US carriers suck. Period. They cannot compete against the other big international carriers on product. America is fat, lazy, and entitled. The service on US carriers (my airline included) is McDonald's dollar menu crap when compared to a wide body full of 20 something year olds that look and smell lovely and aren't 50 lbs overweight and nearing 70 years old, behave like ladies and not uncaged gorillas, and treat the customers as the reason for their job and not the self loading freight that's interrupting their Candy Crush game. I remember distinctly seeing a Cathay Pacific crew walking through the airport Hilton LAX a few years back followed by a United crew. JHC. It was like a slaughter ready pig following a Kentucky race horse. American carriers will lose to everyone else on product.

Ask the rust belt how patriotic steel customers were once you could import steel cheaper than buying US made. Now imagine a paying customer being offered the same fare on NAI vs AA/UA/DL and imagine their cabin crew versus yours. Still get a warm fuzzy? I don't think I'll be updating my apps any more.

That's easy; shoot for the Legacies. When you land there, continue living on your current regional salary expectations, and bank the difference you'll be making at the Legacy.

Start buying rental properties with the excess cash. Or a Jimmy John's franchise.

This house of cards isn't about to collapse overnight, but it will likely be adversely affecting future career choices, so insulate yourself as best as you can before that happens.

Guy I know from Suddern did just that; left Suddern, took a job flying in Afghanistan, made real good coin, invested in multi-family housing back home. Now he's got some 20+ doors generating monthly cashflow. When he didn't get hired at the Legacy of his choice, it didn't matter. He's flying 121 supp cargo now, but on his terms, and he's home every night. The flying "job" became nothing more than a hobby for him.

You said I needed to make a bet so I threw my two cents in.

Based on the fact you say you're still at a regional, does this mean you will not be applying to the legacies? Honest question because you seem so sure of how things will be going.


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I sure hope he does. He has been talking a big game, but he seems unpredictable.

I think he would probably be more likely to overturn this thing than Hillary would have been.

So much truth to that, it hurt. Couldn't stop laughing though. Spot on.

I know I'm pointing out the obvious (and you probably realize this, too) but EEOC an anti-discrimination laws have a lot to do with that.

A Spirit guy saying that the Big 3 products suck? Wow.....

So you're definition of a good "product" is 100% about the tightness of the a%^ of the cabin crew. You mentioned it twice. Have you flown on Norwegian? I have. It's nothing special.

Oh and your example of Cathay? Yeah, check their financials. Airline profits are about more than how tight the skirt is of the flight attendants. It's a big world out there, and the US Airlines operate on a macro scale.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/37103659?client=safari