DAL/NWA pilots agree?
 

http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/19/news...ion=2008021907

Details tomorrow perhaps.

Tomorrow (Wednesday 2/20) is going to be very interesting.

Hopefully this will set off a chain of consolidation that will strengthen the airline industry over the long term.

Fewer airlines means less competition
Less competition makes it easier to raise fares
Raising fares means for revenue
More revenue means more profit
More profit means a more stable company
A more stable company making more profits is good for pilots.

Mergers may only sting short term. Long term, they should be good for the industry.

I've flown for CAL for two years. I fly with old Continental, People Express, New York Air, and Frontier Pilots that still are angry about the mergers that happened about twenty years ago. I hope you are right about it being good, but trust me they sting for quite a while.

NWA friend of mine commented that ALPA is playing the "we will help you" (with integration) in the merger process in exchnge for large pay increases. Some think it may be part of "the deal". Anyone out there from NWA-DAL care to comment???

Things are very quiet right now at Delta....

Expect an MEC Chairman's letter late today or tommorrow...


Kevin

Very quiet at NWA....

Not so fast
 

Seems the pilot groups agree on the pay but can't agree on the seniority of a combined airline.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23232995/

It's BS NWA wants "thousands" of Delta pilots to be at the bottom of the seniority list. Get real.

I have heard rumors of NWA pilots being stapled to the bottom, or that Delta wants a 4-1 integration. I have even heard of a 1-1 integration with post 9/11 pilots being integrated by date of hire. Obviously, anyone that knows the real answer is not allowed to state what is going on, but if the rumors are ture that Delta should have the upper hand...why should this be the right way? Both companies can operate fine on there own whether merged or not. 4-1 sounds greedy to me...

I think this is what NWA wants and that would basically put the 5000 NWA pilots integrated with the first 5000 Delta pilots, then the last two thousand Delta pilots would end up at the bottom except for the 150 NWA newhires who would get DOH. Not gonna happen.

that was a bs article from a newspaper. Come on do you really think nwa said "thousands" of dal pilots would go to the bottom of the list? That article did exactly what it was intending, stir the pot.

Well, I don't think it came from Delta management. There is talk of going it alone. Apparently the numbers are good.

In my opinion, don't believe the media, they do anything to get a story. Keep this quote in mind when you read or watch the news, even though it is from a James Bond movie I feel it is their motto:

Quote: "There is no news like bad news" (Elliott Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies).

I'm curious why you always think that the leaks are from the nwa side?

Because they are published in the Detroit papers first, quote NWA ALPA officials in the same paragraph and the Atlanta paper could't get the scoop on a fire in their own lobby.

I'm joking but in this case that isn't the type of rumor a D-ALPA type would have made up. It does not fit, they are trying to keep folks calm. They want the "right" merger with the growth, pay restoration and stake in the Company. They want to be relevant to the process. The rumors are at odds with their agenda - so an emotional rumor that hurts unity does not fit with what they want.

I don't know who is leaking what, but I do think it is fairly obvious what is going on...

It is widely accepted/believed among the DAL folks that DALPA's opening offer was DOH if the company would buy out the top 2000 or so NWA guys and send them into retirement paradise. This would put the two groups on fairly equal footing as far as average time on property goes. This did not fly because DAL would not fund it. Now you have an impasse...Hmmmmm? To say the managers want this merger is a huge under statement. The longer it takes, the more nervous they will get...and the more willing they become to pony up the funds to make it happen. I think ALPA finally has a strong hand and they are playing it well!

The beauty is neither pilot group needs this merger, but the CEO's do! So let's not argue over which pilot group has to give up what, but focus on what the companies need to fork over to make a merger beneficial for all pilots. Maybe I am an optimist, but I think that is exactly what the two negotiating teams are doing.

This looks like it is right out of the Continental Management's playbook. Leak information to the press about how the selfish pilot group is holding up pay raises and benefits so that fellow workers start putting pressure on the pilots.

Well said!!

Looks like the NWA guys are trying to "Republic" DAL pilots. It would be a shame if the whole deal went down the toilet due top pilot greed.

Just another reason for a NSL.

Fact: The Delta pilots had a merger committee running and funded for over a year.

Rumor: The NWA pilots were unprepared and were fighting amongst themselves with hard feelings about mergers from the previous attempts at integrating their own list.

Also understand the DAL negotiating team went home.

- report is only rumor -

There are numerous reports that the "rumors" of NWA pilots wanting to put several thousand DAL pilots at the bottom and 400 or 500 NWA pilots at the top were in fact accurate reports, as were the rumors of the concept of ratios that would leave everyone in their same relative position. Again, rumors. But these rumors fit with reputation and known facts.

FACT: Delta revsed their 2008 hiring plan upwards by at least 25% & is talking about the success of their stand alone plan. Don't know if there is a correlation.


IMHO the NWA pilots will kill this deal and the Delta pilots will be happy about it.

Wouldn't surprise me a bit, Buck. I was a news item that NWA ALPA guys were still debating Republic merger issues from 1986, though those issues were unspecified.

A guess? When it came to merging the lists, the NWA fences would be OBE and the Republic guys would have a shot at NWA wides.

Fish - Now that's an angle I had not considered.

Thanks!

Look like there is an agreement to disagree. Fine with me :)

Republic guys already have a shot at NWA wides. All that stuff was finished in 2006. :rolleyes:

Bar,

Where do you get this stuff? Our seniority list is DOH. The previous merger you are talking about happened in 1986. Hard feelings from then? Maybe still a few. But believe me, not like you are painting it. Our message boards talk of the old COBRA Airlines rising again. We are united and prepared.

"Hissss...."

New K Now

I understand your concerns and can accept respectfully walking away.

One question, how do you protect your DC-9 pilots without a merger? What protection do they have now? Compass and Mesaba?

The plan to put several thousand ER, 767, 757 and MD88/90 pilots below them sure isn't acceptable either.

Doug Steenland gets to keep his job and I get to keep mine - what a deal.

Not according to the papers....
http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...18,print.story

There is a narrowbody floor that must be contractually respected. As in there are a minimum number of narrowbodys that must be on the property in comparison to Compass and Mesaba 76 seaters.

Thanks for your concern for NWA DC-9 pilots Bar, but we will be ok. Our DC-9 pilots are DC-9 pilots because they want to be. I have flown with new hires who are on their way to the 747 (s/o) and 320 (FO).

If you are looking at the same information we are, you know that NWA has plently of cash to buy whatever airplanes they want to. There is no need for shrinkage. I think we just are rich in the understanding that any airplane NWA has is not ours as pilots. All we do is fly them. I guess we are not as lucky as you at DAL, where they buy airplanes just so you can fly them. (Or, "invest in their pilots", as you said on another thread)

Understand that the only reason I jump on your posts is that they all seem to indicate that you feel that everyone should be honored to fly for Delta Airlines and jump for joy at the prospects of flying a 767 with a double breasted suit jacket hanging in the closet behind you.

Overplayed our hand? Do you know what our -400's do? Have you been to Narita? Amsterdam? Delta is not the only airline that fly's international. I think our hands are just fine without the coat.

New K Now

[quote=Bucking Bar;325838 The NWA pilots over-played their hand, I think the deal is off.[/quote]

Relax, it's not over yet. Management hasn't even issued any deadlines or threats. In order for both sides to get their best deal, it'll have to go down to the wire - no different than contract time.

I guess they forgot to tell the ex-Republic Captain whose A320 jumpseat I rode recently. He said he was still restricted to narrowbodies.

And to think after all these years all we had to do is ask a DAL jumpseater to straighten it out for us.

Must Have
 

The fences all died in 2006. They can go wherever their seniority will hold. Their seniority is DOH. Maybe his seniority won't let him captain a WB, but it isn't a fence.

So, you believe a newspaper article over someone who has been here for 13 years? Humm. "Trust but Verify" is just "Trust but Trust" with you. Scary. Fire light but no bell? Just let it burn, dude.

NWA's pilot list is DOH and the fences from the Republic merger were done in 2006. If a position comes up here it goes DOH.

Perhaps that's the deal then. Thanks for the info.

The rumors are that the merger committees are no longer meeting.

Well you do know Anderson better than I do.

After 2006 the awarding of positions goes DOH. You can't bump anyone and you cannot insert yourself in front of someone with recall rights.

Too much money still on the table, they'll be back.

The only thing I know is that there are always two sides of the story. I'm also willing to listen and/or be open to the possibility that things may not be what they seem. :rolleyes:

Its always rumors. I cant wait to hear something factual. This either needs to die or happen.

FWIW i heard they are meeting and from what i have "heard" its a really good deal for all involved once the seniority issue is resolved.