Any one has given any thought to the fact that maybe all this "trouble" is just a nice negotiation move done by both pilot groups to get more out form management?. things like all flying on cr900/emb 190 or bigger done by mainline,no furlough clause, much bigget buyout for the old timers, a better joint contract with an ammnedable date of DOS +12 or merging of certificates whatever comes sooner...etc....

the pilots have finally a decent strong negotiation position, by playing the "we are not getting alone card" management might be willing to sweeten the pot to make sure they are on board and can sell thi merger to the financial backers and DC

that's what I would do ...

I don't think any NWA pilot would expect or accept this. Because we would not want it to happen the other way around. As for me, the day before a merger I expect to retire <340 on the NWA seniority list. A whale or 787 captain. The day after a merger I should still be able to expect close to that right?
IM

I think a relative seniority for the guys before the furlows.....DOH for the newhires....seems fair to me. For the new hires, anyone hired in 07 or later should just go DOH.

I would agree that it would be nice if ALL CRJ900 and EMB 175 flying is done by Mainline at mainline pay. That would be more mainline jobs for all.

are you a delta new hire?

that's good for the delta new hire and bad for the nwa new hire. I've got friends that would retire in the top 10 because they were in the 1st few classes at nwa. I don't think they would be anywhere near that if it was date of hire.

why not ratio the classes together. 1st with 1st and so on down so that the last classes are ratioed together. otherwise you could just put the nwa new hires ahead of the delta ones so that nwa's would get their career expections in relationship to retirements met. ;)

both groups should just go to vegas and sit down at the roulette wheel. if it lands on black, delta wins and nwa is stapled, if it lands on red then nwa wins and delta is stapled. as a consolation prize the loser gets to keep their uniform. that way both airline could come away as winners and losers...:D

NW has hired what like maybe a couple hundred new guys? We put almost 500 on property last year. Can you seriously suggest that a NW guy hired last month should be senior to a Delta guy hired in OCT 07, Aug 07? June 07?

How is that bad for NWA new hires? If an NWA guy is hired say in Aug, 2007, all the Delta guys hired after him (hundreds) would be behind him.

Ahhh,

Just looking on our message board it looks like our guys are asking for DOH and being vilified for it.

Just listening to you Delta guys, it looks like some of you want it and some of you don't.

I will say that I have seen how this place (NWA) has been operating with crazy merger integration systems and its not good. The second you allow someone to bid something that someone more senior to you wants they will be ****ed for life.

Is there a solution? I'm sure there is. But, I have a feeling it won't be reached because of egos, and a whole lot of "my airplane" "your airplane" "my seat" "your seat" stuff.

Personally, I KNOW I don't own any of these airplanes over here with red tails. (Ok, well maybe I do feel that I own a piece of the Compass and Mesaba airplanes because my paycut helped pay for them) And I don't really care if a Delta pilot who has been flying for Delta longer than I have been at NWA gets to bid the -400 before me. Sometimes I think our egos as pilots get in the way of far too many things. Good luck to us all.

How about a junior pilot from either company flying a plane you should be able to bid getting it before you?
IM

I guess DOH whould take care of that. That's my point. Whenever that happens, someone is ****ed forever.

Understand, I also think that there have to be some adjustments for DOH for some inequities that are present with that as well.

I agree.
IM

How many has NWA hired post-BK up to today, i.e. 2007 and this year?

I expect something like DOH as a DL newhire, because both companies started hiring in the same year (last year), depending how long and how many pilots the two companies continue to hire separately in the future, nwa newhire may have an advantage considering they will have more pilots behind them (DL has been hiring for huge int'l growth, NWA has been hiring for 2% growth (from my nwa interview) and also from higher utilization of the 9 side. Just some observations...

I don't think a guy hired last month would be ratioed in with a june07 but maybe dec07.

it all depends on how they would fall in line with some kind of ratio. just because delta started hiring 8 months before nwa should they have 30 years of benefit? would it be right for people who were to retire in the top 5 at nwa to end up in the 300-500 range. that doesn't seem like a fair deal to them just because delta started their hiring a little sooner than nwa.

if you use your logic on the new hires you should also use that logic on the senior pilots because I'm sure that NWA has guys who have been around longer than the senior delta guys.

new hire nwa pilots were expecting a lot of retirements compared to delta. the delta new hires will also benefit from the older pilot group at nwa.

The only problem with that is newbs at NWA have FAR better seniority progression over the next 10 years than DAL newbs. Most of us chose NWA because of the seniority progression. This whole thing should go based on career expectations. If you were set to retire at #100 for retirement at DAL thats very close to where you should be in a combined list. I am set to retire probably in the top 20 at NWA if we stay on our own. I tell you what lets do DOH and put up 38 year fences ;)

BIG READ-A MUST

THE ARTICLE IS GETTING THE RESPONSE IT WANTED
The firm that wrote this,

Ford & Harrison is a union busting law firm that airlines hire to stir up just this kind of thing. Do a search on "Flight Options" and Continental Airlines to see these tactics. (Delta's EVP of Human Resources if a founding father of Ford & Harrison, going there after "retiring" from destroying pilot benefits at Continental. They are MOST visible right now at Flight Options, but in the case of DL this guy takes an HR position, and can quietly disrupt everything.




Delta's EVP of HR, from Anti-Pilot Union-Busting Law Firm Ford & Harrison

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Delta's EVP of HR, Mike H. Campbell, from Anti-Pilot Union-Busting Law Firm Ford & Harrison
Just linked to this from an aviation news site, and noticed this...I am sure you DL & NWA guys are already well aware of what this company does... here's to hoping that a non-negotiable part of any agreement includes his resignation. Here at Flight Options they have helped our company's (mis) management drag the profession of our pilots from a great job, into a complete nightmare in a very short period of time. They are likely paid more to do so, than it would cost in acceptable pilot wages. "Human" Resources they are not, and operating under multiple screen names on the fractional boards FYI.
------------------------

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/busi...bios_0220.html

Company leaders: Who will decide

Published on: 02/19/08
Directors of Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines and Minneapolis-based Northwest Airlines are meeting this week to consider the pros and cons of combining. The board members will weigh efficiencies gained by being the world's largest airline against the complexities of joining unions and other employees, fleets, routes and operational systems. If they agree to move forward, a merger could be announced as soon as Thursday. Here is a who's who of decision makers:

DELTA EXECUTIVES
Richard Anderson, 52, became CEO in September, after five months on Delta's board. A lawyer and Texas native, he started at Continental Airlines in 1987. In 1990, he went to Northwest, where he was CEO from 2001-2004. He was an executive vice president of UnitedHealth Group before taking Delta's top post. He is expected to be CEO of a combined Delta-Northwest. But if he doesn't get the job, he is entitled to a potential payout of $14.1 million in stock and cash. He has said he would waive such compensation.

Edward Bastian, 50, president since September 2007 and chief financial officer since 2005. Oversaw Delta's restructuring under bankruptcy. Joined Delta in 1998, left in early 2005 to be CFO of Atlanta-based lighting maker Acuity Brands but returned in July 2005. Previously worked at PepsiCo and in the New York audit practice of accounting firm Price Waterhouse (now PricewaterhouseCoopers).

Mike H. Campbell, 59, executive vice president human resources, labor and communications, joined Delta in 2006 from Atlanta-based law firm Ford & Harrison, where he was a founding partner. Oversaw human resources and labor relations for Continental in the 1990s.
Stephen E. Gorman, 52, executive vice president of operations, joined Delta in December 2007 from Greyhound Lines, where he was CEO and credited with increasing revenue per mile by more than 30 percent. He also held executive posts at Krispy Kreme Doughnuts and Northwest Airlines, where he worked from 1996-2001.

Glen W. Hauenstein, 45, executive vice president of network and revenue management. Has overseen Delta's global fleet efficiency push. Joined Delta in 2005 from Alitalia, where he was chief commercial officer and chief operating officer. During his two years there, Alitalia's revenues grew by almost 20 percent while the fleet was reduced by more than 10 percent. He previously was senior vice president of network for Continental, where he started in 1987 as international controller.

THE DELTA BOARD
Any decision to pursue a merger needs approval of Delta's 10-member board, newly constituted by creditors when the airline emerged from bankruptcy in spring 2007. Anderson has a board seat; here are the others:
• Daniel Carp, 59, joined board in 2007, nonexecutive board chairman. Retired Eastman Kodak chief executive, known for prodding Kodak to start its transformation to digital.
• John Brinzo, 66, joined 2007, chairman of Cleveland-Cliffs, which mines and sells iron ore pellets.
• Richard Goeltz, 65, joined 2007, retired vice chairman and chief financial officer of American Express, a major Delta vendor and financial backer during bankruptcy.
• Eugene Davis, 49, joined 2007, chairman and CEO of Pirinate Consulting Group. Previously held top posts at Emerson Radio and Sport Supply Group.
• Victor Lund, 60, joined 2007, former chairman and chief executive of American Stores, a supermarket chain.
• Walter Massey, 69, joined 2007, former Morehouse College president and the only Atlantan among the new directors.
• David Goode, 67, joined 1999, retired chairman of rail transportation company Norfolk Southern.
• Paula Rosput Reynolds, 51, joined 2004, former AGL Resources chief, now CEO of Seattle-based insurer Safeco.
• Kenneth Woodrow, 63, on board since 2004, retired vice chairman and president of retailer Target.


NORTHWEST EXECUTIVES
Douglas Steenland, 56, CEO since October 2004 and Northwest's president since April 2001. Led the airline through bankruptcy. In 2006, he was among airline executives who successfully lobbied Congress to change pension law to help them avoid defaulting pension plans. Joined Northwest in 1991 as deputy general counsel. Worked under Anderson when he was Northwest CEO. Also served in the Office of the General Counsel of the U.S. Department of Transportation. His potential payout if a merger knocks him out of the top post: $7.8 million in cash and benefits (plus $4.12 million in current value pension benefits).

Neal Cohen, 47, joined Northwest in 2005; currently executive vice president of international strategy and CEO of regional airlines; formerly CFO and a lead architect of the airline's wage and cost cuts during bankruptcy restructuring. He was CFO of US Airways from 2002-2004.

David M. Davis, 41, rejoined Northwest in 2005 and has been CFO since June 2007; formerly senior vice president of finance and controller for Northwest; previously was CFO of US Airways and held finance positions at both Delta and Northwest.

J. Timothy Griffin, 56, executive vice president-of marketing and distribution; joined Northwest in 1993 from Continental, where he was senior vice president of schedules and pricing. Spent four
years at American.

Andrew C. Roberts, 47, executive vice president of operations since October 2004; joined the company in September 1997 as the managing director of Minneapolis/St. Paul engine operations. Previously was general manager of Pratt & Whiney's jet engine manufacturing center in Columbus, Ga.

THE NORTHWEST BOARD
Northwest has a 12-member board, five of which came on in April 2007. Steenland has a board seat. Here are the others:
• Roy Bostock, 67, chairman, joined board in 2005, newly named nonexecutive chairman of Yahoo; a principal of Sealedge Investments; former head of advertising firm MacManus Group.
• David Brandon, 55, joined 2007, CEO of Domino's Pizza and former chief executive of coupon company Valassis.
• Mike Durham, 57, joined 2007, CEO of consulting firm Cognizant Associates; formerly senior vice president and treasurer of American Airlines parent AMR Corp. and CFO of American; former CEO of travel distribution company Sabre; also on board of Atlanta-based natural gas distributor AGL Resources.
• John Engler, 59, joined 2003, former three-term Michigan governor now CEO of National Association of Manufacturers.
• Mickey Foret, 62, joined 2007, president of Aviation Consultants; was CFO of Northwest from 1998 to 2002 and former CEO of Northwest Airlines Cargo.
• Robert L. Friedman, 64, joined 2002, chief administrative and legal officer of private equity firm Blackstone Group.
• Doris Kearns Goodwin, 65, joined 1997, Pulitzer Prize-winning author and historian; was as an assistant to President Lyndon Johnson; taught at Harvard.
• Jeffrey G. Katz, 52, joined 2005, CEO of educational tech company LeapFrog Enterprises; held CEO posts at travel Web site Orbitz and Swissair; spent 17 years at American Airlines.
• James Postl, 61, joined 2007 as an independent director, former CEO of Pennzoil-Quaker State and executive at Nabisco and Pepsico.
• Rodney Slater, 52, joined 2007, partner at Washington law and lobbying firm Patton Boggs; was U.S Secretary of Transportation from 1997-2001; also was director of the Federal Highway Administration.
• William S. Zoller, 59, joined 2006, captain of Northwest's pilots' union and a Northwest pilot for more than 25 years; previously served as an executive vice president of the Air Line Pilots Association, which also represents Delta pilots.

— Compiled by Nisa Asokan and Scott Thurston

Sources: company Web sites, SEC documents, Who's Who in America, Standard & Poor's

I thought I posted the NWA retirements (from a NWA pilot) on another thread. It wasn't that great and certainly a smaller number than either airline's growth number and both airlines need to get to a staffing level that provides for flying 100% of the schedule (a number neither airline had last year).

As far as your final number, that depends on your age... and would you rather be #10 at the World's Largest Airline, or #3 at Delta? There will be more choices at the combined airline if it happens.

Internally and externally Delta management has been writing that they do not need this merger and if the job security and seniority of Delta employees (a point was made to include pilots this time) is not ensured the merger will NOT happen.

They seem perfectly happy to continue with their stand alone plan.

But hey - Steenland gets to keep his job - so I'm sure somebody's happy.

Just Wait
 

If you didn't hear it from your union reps...don't believe it. If you read it in the paper and you get yourself all spun up over it, you aren't very bright. BE PATIENT. They don't have the smoking BK gun to our head this time. If ALPA can't come up with an integration plan in time for the company, then tough. If both pilot groups don't benefit, then there isn't any real reason to support a merger. I'd rather see the negotiators take their time and get it right rather than rush to appease the companies and end up eating a sh@t sandwich. All this he said, she said is very entertaining, but you shouldn't put any credence in it and it won't make one bit of difference. If you aren't on the negotiating committee, you don't know sh@t. Just chill and trust the guys doing the work to get it right (unless they are the red book reps;)). I for one would be content to continue without a merger. If only we could do that and lose Steenland.

Very wise advice indeed. It is the scenario where you want to have your cake and eat it too! We all know mgmt can move ahead with the merger if they like, but they also know the prices they will pay in the future, i.e. east/west us airway. So it's time to regain what we've given up for the past 7 years and rebuild this career we all love. I totally agree that if we can't please both pilot group, then this merger probably shouldn't happen.

On another point, if the only thing this merger accomplishes is to "promote" Steenland out of his current post, i think it is a success already:)

I have the best idea yet. Let's not merge and watch what the One World alliance does to Delta after the Open Skies agreement. My bets are on CAL and AMR.

Remiss
 

Ok, fine ratio it, DOH it, but lets get onto the other equally compelling issues:

Delta guys, forgive me but I'm gonna pop the pin on this grenade--ya gotta ditch the hat & double-breast coat--rather dated but hey ya get a NWA leather jacket ;) As for the shirt itself do you guys wear wings on the shirt too? Say it ain't so! It makes it hard to commute with your epaulets off to enjoy a beer :eek:

Is this where I paraphrase George Castanza, "Was I wrong? Should I have not mentioned the hat AND the doube-breast coat? Because had I known that was a problem I'd have...":D

Just kidding, ya'all. Frankly I think this merger has no legs, however there are a lot of people politicians and institutions who want or hate this deal. Cong Rep Oberstar from Minn has said he does not want this deal to go through and he chairs the Transportation Cmte, yet he might be saying that for public consumption, because the train has left the Minny station so to speak, so Oberstar may get some help on legislation from the GA reps so who truly knows; admittingly it is amazing to see it get this far. I hope it works out for everyone because I think NorthDeltawest (catchy, huh?) from a business perspective might bring more stability to our careers..."Was I wrong? Should I have not mentioned "stability"...

http://www.virtualstapler.com/office_space/os_12.asp
http://www.virtualstapler.com/office...lton_holds.jpg

I agree with you except the numbers you posted where assuming all pilots will fly to 65 and the simple fact is alot of our retirements are early outs meaning pre-60. Hopefully this gets squared away and is relatively fair to everyone.

Main thing is dont believe a BS newspaper, believe what the MEC tells you. Also another KEY thing that needs to come out of this is a LARGE pilot group who stands together and finally takes back our careers.

Let me get this right;NW pilots get pay raises to DL rates,access to new aircraft deliveries this year and DOH. DL pilots get leather jackets. I think that is DOA.

All I know about NWA retirements is what other NWA pilots write. Even on this board several senior NWA FO's have written that the Captains they fly with are almost all planning on staying, especially if Delta and a payout might be coming.

The NWA MEC has been talking to the papers and is the source of some of these rumors. Search Chairman Greg Rizzuto and Vice Chairman Matt Coons in the news and read for yourself. Again, I'm no NWA expert, all I know is what I read in the papers and these guys are quoted in the last few days.

Finally, "the pilots" are not coming together - NOT AT ALL - not even trying to. The majority of NWA's and Delta's narrowbody domestic flying by departures or block hour measures are flown by the 11 Connection / Airlink carriers. If there was any effort to get them on the list, I'd be much more supportive of this merger for the reasons you mention.

One of my biggest problems with the merger is scope. NWA is outsourcing DC-9 flying as quick as it can and YOUR UPGRADE is being lost in the process. Delta does the same here, although the 76 to 142 seat gap between the largest RJ and smallest narrowbody jet is harder to fill. The Airbus has coast to coast range going for it, but the Pratt GTF engine will take away that advantage in the future. IMHO we are not "powerful" pilot groups when we outsource most of our narrowbody domestic operations.

I'm almost at the point of writing that this merger is not going to happen. One important difference between NWA and Delta is the extent that the employees and management work together. I do not think the NWA negotiators appreciate what this means. While the Delta MEC does support the right merger, they have been clear that they will stop the wrong merger. Delta management has been clear that they will only do a merger that protects their employees seniority. This deal could get pulled off the table. Delta is very happy with their stand alone performance.

Fins,

Let me give you my perspective as a 10 year NWA guy.

We have about a 1100 to 1200 normal age 65 retirements in the next 10 years, DAL has about 500 to 600.

About 20% of our list will be retiring and about 8% of your list. You have a very young pilot group ours is older.

We are parking some of our DC 9's but we are aquiring more a320s. You have 777s on order we have 787 on order 15 firm 50 options.

We will get a raise to DAL rates but both groups will get rates above that because of the merger.

So the question is how do we work this all out to be fair. Here is my simpleton idea.

A date of hire list with conditions. The condition is fences, 10 years accross the widebodies sounds about right. You keep your 777 and 767ER for your advancement we keep our 747, A330, and 787. After 10 years we will be on a normal retirement flow. Secondly is a no bump no flush across the board. You keep your seat after the merger only movement comes through vacancy awards.

I am know it may seem a bit simple but sometimes simple is the best. Whatever is done this group needs to unite for the future. Or am I the only one that worries about $1 Billion form KLM/Air France and cabotage.

As for the leather jackets, double breasted suits, and hats... now that is complicated. ;)

Uniform isn't changing, there are real reasons for it and the Navy and Marine folks running the show do not want it changed. Others have tried - it aint happening....

I'm also thinking this merger is DOA. Internally I'm hearing a lot of "Delta's stand alone plan is working very well." IMHO Delta is not going forward without the pilots.

First, let me apologize - this reply comes across as harsh and that isn't the intent. But I think there are additional considerations.

After 10 years the Delta pilots will be retiring in LARGER numbers than NWA and you want to effectively staple DAL guys then bring the fences down in time to cash in on their retirements.

Who's flying the 72 RJ's NWA has coming to replace much of the DC-9 flying? Those jobs are leaving the property if I'm not mistaken.

Outsourcing, returning to normal staffing and growth are each factors which impact senority progression as much as the NWA retirement numbers. Delta's hiring numbers were revised up to 500 this year. That will mean nearly 1,000 pilots since 02/07 with nearly no retirements - with a large number going straight to the heavies.

So lets see, 1,000 now for growth, or 1,000 maybe if capacity doesn't shrink, over 10 years....

How about a ratio integration by seat & pay? ALPA mergers in the past have been pay and equipment type based. That would be "fair" too by past practice.

Thank God, I think this merger is going to get pulled off the table. Keep your Northwest, your Northwest. I'm not worried about Cabotage - I think we can outperform an airline with expenses in Euros.

I'm thinking Doug is going to be crying, he loses his big buyout and has to keep running an airline.

I chose Delta over NWA because Delta was hiring lots more and I knew I would have better relative seniority at Delta with the growth. I know NWA has lots of retirements, but the growth at Delta puts you in a better relative position than retirements at NWA would have put me. I've been at Delta for 7 months and I'm 95% on the list. That would not happen at NWA even with the "massive" retirements that may or may not happen for another 5 years now. Growth is driving the progression at Delta and it is better than retirements at NWA. 100 more newhires next month is much better than retirements for nearly the whole year at NWA. I'm set to retire about 30 or so at Delta so should you go ahead of me even though my relative seniority is higher? I don't think your projected retirement position matters, it is the relative position. So if you were to retire at 20 or so on a 5000 pilot list, you should end up retiring about 50 or so on a 12,000 pilot list.

I would like you to be right on this one, but I believe 20 billion in corporate greed will outweigh pilots being on board.

I'd let superpilot92 ahead of me on the list if we can ditch the hat and jacket. :) I hate that hat.

( deleted )

Money vs hat, go with the dough.

[quote=finis72;324687]Let me get this right;NW pilots get pay raises to DL rates,access to new aircraft deliveries this year and DOH. DL pilots get leather jackets. I think that is DOA.[/quote

I agree. They can keep the leather jackets. I am one of the few at DL who have come to love the old horse blanket.

Just a few points I wanted to make about all I have read over the past few weeks:

About the retirements at NW, there will also be a mass exodus of DL pilots following NW retirees. To justify DOH because of the amount of retirements coming sooner at NW is not equitable. They are also coming to Delta just a few years later. Should I suffer loss of senority for 30 years also, (as a previous NW pilot put it), just because NW has more retirees going a little earlier.

IMHO, I think NW stands to gain a great deal more than the DL pilot. If in fact the NW negotiators are insisting on DOH and management indeed does want to have SLI resolved before an announcement is made, you may see a few sticks and carrots enter the senario from management.

And a relative senority integration is not a concession by the NW pilots. I've seen that written a few times on the boards and in a few articles. If anything DL pilots should want more due to absorbing the old -9's and the possible furloughs that could come with their shedding sooner rather than later. Everyone at Delta can remember how quick the 727, L-10, and MD-11 and old -200's left when the decision was made and I'm sure the NW -9's will leave even quicker.

Although there are risks to the junior pilots like myself, I think the long term growth opportunites may be better as a combined carrier. I look foward to seeing the negotiators work. Any SLI resembling DOH will be DOA.

DAWGS

[QUOTE=DAWGS;324771]that's why you ratio and put fences up, for a while.

how important do delta guys think the retirements would be if the industry slowed?

I'm sure the nwa guys feel the same way about the merger as delta. If it isn't good for them they wouldn't want it either. by the way who came looking for who...;)

DOA, you do realise that stands for Delta Orient Airlines :D

First off I will be surprised, but not shocked if this merger goes off the table. To much has been going on in the background for a few years. You have the fact that both companies went into bankruptcy on the same day, admitted to discussions back then of a merger, Pinacle now doing flying for both Northwest and Delta, Air France and KLM merging, and last but not least Richard Anderson coming in to be the CEO.

Also your Executive VP just came out yesterday and said that the merger would make DAL a "Global Airline" and thats what the market place demands.

As far as placing people on the senority list by pay and equipment I doubt it will happen. Yes you have new hires going to the right seat of the ER in New York but you also have 2000 hires sitting on the -88. So do you punish your guys for bidding lifestyle over paycheck?

For me personally I guys I am expecting to lose some senority, how much is the question. I guess one thing I would not vote for is any deal that places anyone on either list hired prior to Sept 11 placed behind anyone hired in 2007.

Someone else already said it. If management and the BOD wants the merger to happen it will happen. Watch over the next few days for the carrot and stick method of management to occur.

Lets just hope that if this happens that we all have jobs and it leads to the international growth that management says it will.

Folks on other boards have played with the concept of a scenario where everyone bid the most senior equipment they could hold - then doing a equipment ratio. That would answer your concern about folks who bid QOL.

No one gives a crud about the 2007 hires, but for the guy who chased down a Delta job because he wanted 767ER flying it is a tough break to be told "you're going to Detroit on a DC-9," after all, that is not the job he signed up for. At the same time, a guy on the DC-9 hired in early 2007 could hold a good block on a 767ER in New York - $58 v/s $81 per hour for starters - one heck of a windfall. The career whipsaw at the bottom end is really wild - any ideas on how we fix that?

I think we will all have jobs and there will be growth at both airlines. I just hope that you keep your job and I keep my job. No forced trading, no displacements.

do you really feel that you'll be kicked out of the 767 and sent to detroit??? that's like saying my buddy who went to nwa so he wouldn't have to commute will be sent to atl to fly the 88's so a delta guy can move back home to an nwa hub or shorten his commute. it ain't gonna happen.

Well said.

I think that all of the wild unsubstantiated rumors that we have been hearing are mostly nonsense. IF the BODs at DL/NW want this to happen they will have to be patient, and may have to sweeten the deal a little more. The reps doing the negotiating for both pilot groups went into this looking for a win-win, not a staple job. This does not have to be a zero-sum game. If done correctly, the combined airline could provide a great career for the junior pilots at both companies.

If and when an agreement is reached, then we can decide if it's acceptable. If not, then either the deal falls apart or we go to arbitration, and I don't think anyone really wants arbitration. The posts on the "other" pilot forum have gotten way out of hand: Grown men are behaving like snot-nosed kids with a keen sense of entitlement...

Ah geeze thanks ;) I for one just want to see a relatively fair deal for everyone. This definitely should not be one sided whomever that side is. Lets not try and get worked up about some bs newspaper article and wait for the MEC to release some real info.