HSLD

Anyone remember how binding arbitration went for the Alaska pilots?

I don't see this as a power play as much as wanting resolve as many details as possible prior to an agreement. Binding arbitration throws an unknown into an equation that could disadvantage both, one, or neither pilot group. As much as we'd like to think an arbitrator would follow logic and past practice to reach a fair agreement, there is no guarantee.

capncrunch

A "NOT" joke. Really, is this the 80s? Are we in junior high?

Believe it or not, people actually live in those towns.

iahflyr

I don't care how Northwest and Delta integrate the pilot seniority list...


JUST AGREE ALREADY!!

With oil at $110/barrel, the airlines are hurting badly. Every $1 increase in the price of oil costs United (and similar sized carriers) about $60 million dollars. So you can see that the $50/barrel increase year over year has caused BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of dollars in extra expense. The airlines should be raising fares but they can't because there is too much competition.

Just friggin merge already so that United and Continental can merge, and some of the national/lcc's can merge and we can try to get this industry on track.

Without any mergers, the industry is only going to tank further than it is today. United stopped hiring. Delta stopped hiring. American still has furloughs from 2001. FedEx, UPS, Skywest, Expressjet, ASA have all stopped hiring. It will only get worse unless we get some stronger carriers (ie, merged carriers).

Binding arbitration will take NWA's date of hire, and Delta's relative seniority plans. Then take a dart, throw it somewhere in the middle, and boom... mergers that will really help this industry out!

Just agree already!!

Delta and Northwest pilots unions have no idea what they are costing themselves (or the entire industry).

tomgoodman

Sure they do. But the political angels of each MECs nature whisper to them: "Better a horrible deal blamed on the arbitrator than a semi-horrible deal blamed on us."
Imagine flying with a guy who feels that you, personally, cost him his "rightful" seniority. Tell him that it was for the good of the pilot group as a whole and the good of the industry.
Union officials will work hard for the membership, but won't throw themselves on a grenade.

acl65pilot

The take on this is that NWA was way to quick to come back to the table after the last round. IE just more negotiating. That said. You cannot predict the future any of it.
Early outs, medicals or age 65. I am sure that there will be some lawsuits in the next few years over that law. We need to agree on the constants known today. Many disagree. It is just fact.
It APPEARS that the NWA mec really wants this deal done. I have my suspicions. DAL is parking jets, UAL is parking jets, I am sure that NWA is right around the corner on that as well. I will bet that the MEC is aware of this. They want this done so the brunt of the cuts will be felt by a merged list. (read not NWA pilots) That is fine, but Lee and Co at DAL see this and will not agree to anything that could possible put people on the street from the DAL side. As our MEC stated today, and we have the backing of RA and co for the time being; No arbitration. It has to be agreed to prior to their being an announcement. I do not think that this will change. There are too many pitfalls that could kill this deal in the long run.
I think that if we are all very realistic on what this merger means to each individual, as well as each pilot group we can accomplish something great. There is a very tall upside to this deal. Long term the ****ing over the current issues will seem stupid. There is a lot of growth that DAL wants to do after the deal is approved. It truly does not matter where oil is, it is mostly overseas where we deal in euros or the currency de jour. A lot is to places than many will not try to fly. (Read less competition long term) To realize this we need a deal. Will it happen, I do not know, but trying to placate each fractions desires is not the way to get it done.

sailingfun

As of 6 months ago the average age of NWA's DC-9 fleet was 35 years and 7 months. That was based on 108 aircraft. They would now average 36 years old. Some I believe have been retired so that may reduce the average age a bit but I don't think stating they are approaching 40 years old is incorrect. I believe several are over 38 years old and few are over 39.

Bucking Bar

With current oil prices things have changed. For one, DAL Management has to re-evaluate whether a merger makes sense. Airplanes they were going to operate at $90 a barrel might not be feasible at $110. The merger itself if not on the table without further evaluation.

Secondly, the 2 Billion in benefits for a pilot agreement are no longer on the table. The pilots did not agree.

The NWA / DAL is over with for now. Bigger fish to fry, other deals being considered.

HSLD

Is it Labor's job to subsidize fluctuations in global commodity prices that fall outside of a business model? Should labor be eager to diminish career expectations because of management teams (at all airlines) inability to establish pricing traction in the market place?

These are rhetorical questions, although my point is this crisis is a management problem. If labor is expected to make this happen at all costs, why would either MEC agree to disadvantage a single pilot?

I find it odd that pilots are at each others throats trying to fix decades of management failure. I never thought I'd agree with Robert Crandall, but in this case I do (except for the quip about anti-labor legislation!):

Comments when oil was $70/barrel http://www.cnbc.com/id/19502245/

More recent comments: http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/play...nce&ch=1316259

Superpilot92

DC-9s - The number of DC-9s will be reduced to 68 aircraft over the course of the year, with the largest reduction coming after the summer. We plan to operate a year-end fleet consisting of 34 - 50s, 12 - 40s and 22 - 30s

50% of the dc9 fleet by the end of the year will be DC9-50's So just to split hairs,a little background for you on the dc9-50

The DC-9-50 is the largest member of the DC-9/MD-80/MD-90/717 family to bear the DC-9 designation. Launched in mid 1973, the DC-9-50 is a further 2.44m (8ft 0in) longer than the DC-9-40, or 4.34m (14ft 3in) longer than the DC-9-30, and has maximum seating for 139 passengers. Delivered from August 1975 - 1980, the DC-9-50 introduced a new look cabin interior designed to make more efficient use of the space available and give the impression of a more spacious interior, plus other improved features such as an improved anti skid braking system and quieter engines compared with the DC-9-40.

nwaf16dude

You didn't mention the most important feature of the DC-9...no monthly payment! Got to love having the pink slip.

Was flying the 9 over new year's eve 1999...passenger asked me if the jet was going to do anything weird when the clock rolled over to midnight 2000. I said, sir, no part of this airplane knows what day it is!