Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 353021)

So to speak. We just brought our contract and management was willing to let us go from there. If they didn't we would have been negotiating down.

Originally Posted by hiflyer (Post 353029)

.... and a workforce that at least enjoys the people they work with.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 353033)

The equity, the job protections, the pay raises were all improvements to both the DAL and NWA book.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 353028)

http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...c-victory.aspx

By Tim Beyers April 1, 2008

Over the weekend, The Wall Street Journal reported that executives at Northwest Airlines (NYSE: NWA) are still pushing for a merger with peer Delta (NYSE: DAL), even if it means their pilots were to lose their seniority -- and thereby, a number of other promised benefits. Talk about a dumb idea.

Don't get me wrong; I'm a capitalist, and unabashedly so. But the Journal report, if true, reeks of desperation. It's almost as if Northwest management so fears another journey into Chapter 11 bankruptcy that it'll destroy the airline to, uh, keep from destroying the airline.

Destroy the airlines?

Unions -- love 'em or loathe 'em -- have broad authority when it comes to the airline business. Only carriers that deal fairly with their people have a prayer of producing long-term profit.

Delta and Northwest know this. But the Journal report suggests that upon the completion of a merger, Northwest's 5,000 pilots would mostly fall behind their new peers in terms of seniority, benefits, and worst of all, pay. (The average Delta pilot is paid more than the average Northwest pilot, according to the Journal.)

At issue is what's called a "seniority list," whereby pilots are ranked according to their time with the company. Every major carrier has one. Seniority plays a key role in determining assignments, time off, and other benefits.
Pilots at Delta and Northwest have been unable to agree on terms for combining seniority lists. Apparently, Delta's fliers fear that they'll forfeit much of what they've earned at the bargaining table, as well as opportunities for career advancement. No doubt that's true. But what's the alternative?

I'm not entirely sure whether the fears of Delta's pilots are justified. But certainly, Northwest's fliers have something to fear. History has been unkind to acquired carriers. TWA, for example. AMR (NYSE: AMR) spent $500 million for the carrier in 2001. Employees of beleaguered Trans World lost much of their seniority, and the benefits that came with it.

The ensuing fight got so ugly that the Senate held a hearing on the matter in 2003 -- the same year that American narrowly avoided bankruptcy. Yet little has changed since. A simple Web search will direct you to more than a few sites where former TWA employees vent their frustration as they pledge to help each other.

To be fair, neither Delta nor Northwest is under any obligation to get its pilots to agree to a combined seniority list. But without one, the chances of this deal resembling the American-TWA debacle increase dramatically.

A little more history

Let's not forget that Northwest already has a reputation for union-busting. A 2005 mechanics' strike mostly failed after management called in line-crossers and contractors to replace its 4,000 grease monkeys. A 2006 tete-a-tete with pilots nearly ended in disaster.

Will Northwest employees tolerate still more cuts? I doubt it. At some point, enough will very likely be enough.

That's the lesson of history. Unions rarely take to scorched-earth policies, but the territorial nature of the airline business has led to fistfights at the new US Airways (NYSE: LCC) and finger-pointing at United Airlines parent UAL (Nasdaq: UAUA).

How about we prevent such a mess this time, Northwest? Take a lesson from master investor Philip Fisher instead, who asks in his famous 15 points whether a prospective investment has "outstanding labor and personnel relations."

He wrote that for a reason, sirs. Happy employees make for a healthy business. There's still time for you to have both -- but only if you abandon your merge-at-all-costs strategy. That way a Pyrrhic, and perhaps fatal, victory lies.

Originally Posted by hiflyer (Post 353029)

CAP, you do not understand where the "goodies" came from? How about Lee Moak stating way before Prater and NWA jumped on board that any merger would include the pilots and provide equity and compensation for cooperation. The outline of this new way of doing mergers was devised by DALPA. That is a fact, so in essence, this deal would have already been crammed down our collective throats without any input if DALPA had not been out in front of this issue before it arose.

Do you really believe that if CAL, UAL or AA came and asked NWA to do a deal that there would have been "goodies" for NWA pilots? VERY NAIVE!!!!!!

Why do you suppose the deal is/was considered dead by DAL? It is because DALPA does not see the value of destroying our airline over a SLI that is detrimental to the pilots at DAL. RA agreed and walked away. Steenland came back along with NWALPA asking that the deal be further considered. Knowing how NWA views its employees, I doubt it will be as good as it would have been.

This new deal is going to be tweaked, I doubt it will be the DAL side that is in for a rude awakening. DAL is on the leading edge of the Open Skies movement and will not destroy the company because some ****ed off employees at NWA who work under different colored books want a windfall deal.

And you wonder why DAL pilots are against this merger? DAL has had its share of mergers too. We still have one contract, one book and a workforce that at least enjoys the people they work with.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 352811)

Your right that seniority is forever. Last week in LGA there were two Northwest pilots talking near the Comair gates. When they greated each other one asked the other what he was flying these days. He said he just bid over to the 757. The other asked how he sat on the 757 seniority wise. He replied that he was about the 50% point! He never mentioned his DOH which I found odd.

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 353194)

So.....are you trying to debate my point, because I think you just reinforced it?

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 353219)

I think the point was that there are different concepts on seniority. If you were a USAIR pilot hired in 88 you had 17 years longivity with the company in 2005 when their merger occurred. You were however last on the seniority list. This NWA pilot expressed his seniority by where he sat on the equipment not by his hire date. There in lies the basic issue with this merger and why I feel it would be best that it not happen and we both go it alone. Many NWA pilots say the difference is solely because of our early retirements. That is not true. The pilots who went early went from 2002 to 2005. Most were over 55. A significant number of them would have been retired before last Dec when the age increased. Delta enjoyed greater growth in the nineties then NWA which accounts for much of the 3 to 7 year differences between relative position and DOH.
In any merger there is one absolute. If DOH benefits you then that is what is fair. If a ration benefits you then that is what is fair. Its always been that way and will always be that way. NWA wanted a ration by equipment in the Republic merger because it benefited them. They want DOH now because it benefits them now. If DOH benefited Delta in the merger then I have no doubt that is what we would be asking for. In the end finding a solution and putting together a unified pilot group that could work together for a better future is just not likely. The look the Delta pilots got at the meetings we had where they witnessed first hand the animosity between the Red book and Green book pilots hammered that point home. Lets shake hands, part friends and go our seperate ways.