Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-26-2008, 01:30 PM   #491  
Super Moderator
 
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 737
Posts: 5,350
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler View Post
The SLI could happen any time as well - I've stopped trying to predict anything here. Too many surprises.

Carl
Carl,
I agree predictions are hard - especially about the future.

One of my favorite "Yogisms."

Scoop
Scoop is offline  
Old 06-26-2008, 01:36 PM   #492  
No longer cares
 
tsquare's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PropNWA View Post
That's the thing I've been wondering about myself. I assume they will want to move some planes around ASAP. If, for example, they want some 400's in ATL, would they displace former NWA DTW 400 pilots to ATL. Or, I suppose they could theoretically start each 400 trip with a deadhead from DTW to ATL as a temporary measure until they get the single operating certificate. I'll be curious to see how it all works out.
What they would do is open a 747 category in ATL, and everyone gets to bid on it. Which is precisely why this SLI is so very impoortant. If the top NWA guys get protected, then Carl would get a paid move on top of everything else. (If he wanted to move... Not pickin on ya Carl, you are the only whale driver I "know") But let's assume Carl wants to get a 777 type rating. So much for the no bump-no flush concept, because if they draw down the DTW category, those guys have to go somewhere, and when they do, they could very well displace somebody in another category.
tsquare is offline  
Old 06-26-2008, 05:25 PM   #493  
Back on TDY
Thread Starter
 
Carl Spackler's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,496
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoop View Post
Carl,
I agree predictions are hard - especially about the future.

One of my favorite "Yogisms."

Scoop
My favorite one is: "Nobody goes to that restaurant anymore...it's too crowded."

Carl
Carl Spackler is offline  
Old 06-26-2008, 07:24 PM   #494  
Gets Weekends Off
 
DelDah Capt's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 404
Default

Hate to continue the off topic, but my favorite Yogi-ism:

On being told by the Wife of New York Mayor John V. Lindsay that he looked cool despite the heat:

He replied: "You don't look so hot, either."
DelDah Capt is offline  
Old 06-27-2008, 08:39 PM   #495  
Line Holder
 
PackTrip's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: B767 FO
Posts: 79
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alfaromeo View Post
NWABusDriver and Keenster,

Retirements are fixed, but they don't mean anything if a pilot retires and his job is gone after he retires. In order for you to move up, there has to be a job to move up to. Delta has added 700 jobs including 350 wide body Captain jobs in the last year. That is the same as Northwest having a static fleet and having 700 pilots retire. Unfortunately, Northwest does not have a static fleet. They are losing 52 airplanes this year.

If you are going to look forward and count retirements, then you are going to look forward and count growth according to each airline's business plans. You can't just cherry pick one item that favors you and assume away all others. Again, retirements only matter if your fleet doesn't shrink more than the retirements. Right now your fleet is shrinking more than your retirements. Most Northwest pilots say "I will make the Whale in 20XX" depending on their seniority. How do you know the Whales will be around in 10 years or more? Where did all the DC-10's go? To make a forward looking view based on retirements requires you to make the same forward looking predictions on fleets as a growth plan does. Your forward looking assumptions are just as wrong as my forward looking assumptions, this industry changes rapidly.

You can either snapshot where we are right now, or you can look forward using ALL forward looking factors. If you think any arbitrator will allow you to cherry pick your individual arguments then you are mistaken.

In the Nicolau award (US Air/Am West), the arbitrator said that all that forward looking crap for both sides was just that, crap. He took a snapshot and integrated the lists based on that snapshot.

You are correct that after a merger Delta's superior contract will become community property and be shared. After a merger, Delta's superior growth plan will become community property and be shared. Northwest's slight edge in retirements (of active pilots, not long term sick) in the short term (about 350 more at 10 years) and Delta's slight edge in the long term (about 350 more at 15 years) will also become community property and be shared. If you want to keep "your" retirements then you have to keep "your" contract and "your" fleet plan. No cherry picking allowed.

I think the Northwest pilots should get used to the idea of a snapshot integration using some ratio method. That is what was used in the Airways arbitration and that will most likely be a guiding factor if we are forced to arbitration. While it will affect your advancement due to retirements, it will give you huge benefits in contract items and in potential fleet growth. I know that seniority can't be bought, but your view on what your retirements mean to you will necessarily be translated into economic terms. Any outside arbitrator will see that the contractual and fleet growth economic gains will outweigh your retirement issues. Whatever personal value you place on being a "Whale Captain" will not factor into the decision.
Excellent post. Now where's my red swingline stapler. This forum needs a pokeystick (just teasing) emoticon.

Relative seniority is the hot ticket. DOH will never happen.
PackTrip is offline  
Old 06-28-2008, 07:11 PM   #496  
Gets Weekends Off
 
capncrunch's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,260
Default

..............................

Last edited by capncrunch; 06-29-2008 at 12:59 AM.
capncrunch is offline  
 
 
 

 
Post Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:32 AM.