Delta SLI?
04-20-2008 | 01:47 PM
#11
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From: LAX ERA
Ok,
Yeah I'm working on an email to John as we speak. Talked to him in the MSP crew room before going to NRT early March and all he would say is 'you won't like their proposal'. He is just junior to me so I value what he says.
Anyway, just trying to get a feel the other proposal. Confused by your comment......I'm an avid reader of our ALPA forum. See you over there?
Ferd (proud NO voter....if that helps your previous comment)
Yeah I'm working on an email to John as we speak. Talked to him in the MSP crew room before going to NRT early March and all he would say is 'you won't like their proposal'. He is just junior to me so I value what he says.
Anyway, just trying to get a feel the other proposal. Confused by your comment......I'm an avid reader of our ALPA forum. See you over there?
Ferd (proud NO voter....if that helps your previous comment)
04-20-2008 | 02:53 PM
#12
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From: 767er Captain
Well, I plan on calling my LEC rep tomorrow and getting it from the horse's mouth. But in reality, all of this is moot anyway since it died before birth. All it is now is forum banter. I still think we have a great potential here, and I sincerely hope the NWA reps will get onboard soon..
04-20-2008 | 05:02 PM
#13
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A friend of mine at NWA did call his rep. The rep confirmed that DALPA's opener was essentially a straight ratio. This was further confirmed by Lee Moak in writing that a ratio that essentially left every pilot at their pre merger ratio was the DALPA proposal. I have seen nothing in writing from the NWA committee on their opener. I would like to see it.
04-21-2008 | 04:52 AM
#14
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From: 88B - Loud Pipes Save Lives
Hi All,
New member to the forum. Saw Hank's posting of the UPS guys graphs on our ALPA board and came over to check it out. Lurked for a couple of days and now here I am.......you poor bas&%#ds
Here is my questions for the Delta guys as I'm trying to understand where you guys THINK (since none of us have seen anything officail) how this thing will work. After all, like all airline pilots....it's all about me.
I think I represent the middle 1/3 of our list so I'm junior to the red/green stuff and above the post 9/11 junior guy food fight.
Here is my situation and I'm not throwing stones only trying to understand where you guys are coming from:
I'm a 9/95 NWA hire with a number of 3058 of 5156 or appx 59%. On a combinded NWA/Delta list looks like I'm 7123 of 12279 or 58% (according to EZOpen board (your welcome for the plug Steve). Also, I sit in one of your "dead zones" or the 92 to 96ish no hire years.
I'm retired USAF guy who doesn't need to chase $$. So, I'm a MSP 757 FO bidding 53 of 184. I can hold Hawaii, Guam and Saipan vs the deice line in Fargo in Febuary as a DC-9 Capt where I would be 110 of 166 (in MSP)
So, assuming we are going to do this and assuming the list will look more like your assumptions than ours, how does this work. Do I want to run out and be a captain or am I just as well off being a senior FO?
Intersting stuff eh? DOH doesn't give me a windfall so what does your SLI do?
Oh and to the ATL guys, I live in Dallas and won't go to ATL for the same reason I don't go to DTW. Commuting is dumb enought without doing it across time zones.
Ferd NWA '95
PS I also turned down a Delta interview in July of 97 (old UPAS application from 94 or 95) even though you still had a base here at the time. Guess I'm going to see how good THAT decision was!!
New member to the forum. Saw Hank's posting of the UPS guys graphs on our ALPA board and came over to check it out. Lurked for a couple of days and now here I am.......you poor bas&%#ds
Here is my questions for the Delta guys as I'm trying to understand where you guys THINK (since none of us have seen anything officail) how this thing will work. After all, like all airline pilots....it's all about me.
I think I represent the middle 1/3 of our list so I'm junior to the red/green stuff and above the post 9/11 junior guy food fight.
Here is my situation and I'm not throwing stones only trying to understand where you guys are coming from:
I'm a 9/95 NWA hire with a number of 3058 of 5156 or appx 59%. On a combinded NWA/Delta list looks like I'm 7123 of 12279 or 58% (according to EZOpen board (your welcome for the plug Steve). Also, I sit in one of your "dead zones" or the 92 to 96ish no hire years.
I'm retired USAF guy who doesn't need to chase $$. So, I'm a MSP 757 FO bidding 53 of 184. I can hold Hawaii, Guam and Saipan vs the deice line in Fargo in Febuary as a DC-9 Capt where I would be 110 of 166 (in MSP)
So, assuming we are going to do this and assuming the list will look more like your assumptions than ours, how does this work. Do I want to run out and be a captain or am I just as well off being a senior FO?
Intersting stuff eh? DOH doesn't give me a windfall so what does your SLI do?
Oh and to the ATL guys, I live in Dallas and won't go to ATL for the same reason I don't go to DTW. Commuting is dumb enought without doing it across time zones.
Ferd NWA '95
PS I also turned down a Delta interview in July of 97 (old UPAS application from 94 or 95) even though you still had a base here at the time. Guess I'm going to see how good THAT decision was!!
Our SLI proposal as we've heard would put you nearly at the junior Capt. slot on the 767 or 737 in ATL. Halfway up the list on the ATL767-400, top 15% 767ER ATL and top 10% on ATL 767 FO. Top 10% 767 LAX and number 1 as a 737 FO in LAX. Halfway up the list on the 737 in NYC and I believe a junior Capt. or close to it in NYC on the 767ER. You would be top 15% on the 767ER FO out of NYC.
04-21-2008 | 06:42 AM
#15
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From: DAL 330
[quote=Ferd149;368551]Hi All,
I think I represent the middle 1/3 of our list so I'm junior to the red/green stuff and above the post 9/11 junior guy food fight.
I'm a 9/95 NWA hire with a number of 3058 of 5156 or appx 59%. On a combinded NWA/Delta list looks like I'm 7123 of 12279 or 58% (according to EZOpen board (your welcome for the plug Steve). Also, I sit in one of your "dead zones" or the 92 to 96ish no hire years.
I'm retired USAF guy who doesn't need to chase $$. So, I'm a MSP 757 FO bidding 53 of 184. I can hold Hawaii, Guam and Saipan vs the deice line in Fargo in Febuary as a DC-9 Capt where I would be 110 of 166 (in MSP)
So, assuming we are going to do this and assuming the list will look more like your assumptions than ours, how does this work. Do I want to run out and be a captain or am I just as well off being a senior FO?
Ferd NWA '95
Ferd,
My recommendation would be to bid senior FO and enjoy the QOL - you will still get pay increases. Based on the seniority calculations from DAL4EVR (posted above) this is what you could have done under the relative seniority SLI:
Current
12 yr 757 FO ($98/hr) bid to FO on the 767 400 with a relative loss of seniority and go to $123/hr prior to the pay increase and about $147/hr with the pay increases.
12 yr 757 FO ($98/hr) bid stay on 757 with a relative gain of seniority and go to $109/hr prior to the raise and about $130/hr after the pay increases.
Who knows what equity deal is gone now that the two MEC's could not agree. This seems like a pretty fair deal to me especially since it looks like NW is accelerating the DC-9 departures which was the big worry in the first place for the junior DAL guys. Good luck, hopefully we can still strike a deal that is fair for all involved.
Scoop
I think I represent the middle 1/3 of our list so I'm junior to the red/green stuff and above the post 9/11 junior guy food fight.
I'm a 9/95 NWA hire with a number of 3058 of 5156 or appx 59%. On a combinded NWA/Delta list looks like I'm 7123 of 12279 or 58% (according to EZOpen board (your welcome for the plug Steve). Also, I sit in one of your "dead zones" or the 92 to 96ish no hire years.
I'm retired USAF guy who doesn't need to chase $$. So, I'm a MSP 757 FO bidding 53 of 184. I can hold Hawaii, Guam and Saipan vs the deice line in Fargo in Febuary as a DC-9 Capt where I would be 110 of 166 (in MSP)
So, assuming we are going to do this and assuming the list will look more like your assumptions than ours, how does this work. Do I want to run out and be a captain or am I just as well off being a senior FO?
Ferd NWA '95
Ferd,
My recommendation would be to bid senior FO and enjoy the QOL - you will still get pay increases. Based on the seniority calculations from DAL4EVR (posted above) this is what you could have done under the relative seniority SLI:
Current
12 yr 757 FO ($98/hr) bid to FO on the 767 400 with a relative loss of seniority and go to $123/hr prior to the pay increase and about $147/hr with the pay increases.
12 yr 757 FO ($98/hr) bid stay on 757 with a relative gain of seniority and go to $109/hr prior to the raise and about $130/hr after the pay increases.
Who knows what equity deal is gone now that the two MEC's could not agree. This seems like a pretty fair deal to me especially since it looks like NW is accelerating the DC-9 departures which was the big worry in the first place for the junior DAL guys. Good luck, hopefully we can still strike a deal that is fair for all involved.
Scoop
04-21-2008 | 07:29 AM
#16
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From: LAX ERA
A friend of mine at NWA did call his rep. The rep confirmed that DALPA's opener was essentially a straight ratio. This was further confirmed by Lee Moak in writing that a ratio that essentially left every pilot at their pre merger ratio was the DALPA proposal. I have seen nothing in writing from the NWA committee on their opener. I would like to see it.
Depending on the ratio, you run out of NWA guys towards the bottom of the list. Probably where the "they want to staple X number of Delta guys to the bottom" came from. Change the ratio to better smooth flow us across the eitire list and SI goes out the window.
So, this was my origional fear and why I was against the merger in March when it first came up. The math get screwey (is that a word?) and why this wasn't done in an afternoon!
What was the Delta vs NWA ratio proposals? 7000ish divided by 5000ish is appx 1.4ISH.....how is that for a business major's math?
Ferd
04-21-2008 | 07:32 AM
#17
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From: Guppy Commander
Who knows what equity deal is gone now that the two MEC's could not agree. This seems like a pretty fair deal to me especially since it looks like NW is accelerating the DC-9 departures which was the big worry in the first place for the junior DAL guys. Good luck, hopefully we can still strike a deal that is fair for all involved.
Scoop
Scoop
04-21-2008 | 07:36 AM
#18
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From: LAX ERA
Ferd,
My recommendation would be to bid senior FO and enjoy the QOL - you will still get pay increases. Based on the seniority calculations from DAL4EVR (posted above) this is what you could have done under the relative seniority SLI:
Current
12 yr 757 FO ($98/hr) bid to FO on the 767 400 with a relative loss of seniority and go to $123/hr prior to the pay increase and about $147/hr with the pay increases.
12 yr 757 FO ($98/hr) bid stay on 757 with a relative gain of seniority and go to $109/hr prior to the raise and about $130/hr after the pay increases.
Who knows what equity deal is gone now that the two MEC's could not agree. This seems like a pretty fair deal to me especially since it looks like NW is accelerating the DC-9 departures which was the big worry in the first place for the junior DAL guys. Good luck, hopefully we can still strike a deal that is fair for all involved.
Scoop[/quote]
Yup,
The raise would sure be nice....and I'd really start to lobby for reopening the DFW base. All that and not commute!!
However, from what I'm hearing the food fight is at the top (no suprise there) and the bottom. A guy who talked to a MEM rep says the list is mostly done, we are mostly arguing over the bottom appx 1000. If true that is less than 10% of the list and I would suggest those guys need to be proud that they're important!
JMHO,
Ferd
My recommendation would be to bid senior FO and enjoy the QOL - you will still get pay increases. Based on the seniority calculations from DAL4EVR (posted above) this is what you could have done under the relative seniority SLI:
Current
12 yr 757 FO ($98/hr) bid to FO on the 767 400 with a relative loss of seniority and go to $123/hr prior to the pay increase and about $147/hr with the pay increases.
12 yr 757 FO ($98/hr) bid stay on 757 with a relative gain of seniority and go to $109/hr prior to the raise and about $130/hr after the pay increases.
Who knows what equity deal is gone now that the two MEC's could not agree. This seems like a pretty fair deal to me especially since it looks like NW is accelerating the DC-9 departures which was the big worry in the first place for the junior DAL guys. Good luck, hopefully we can still strike a deal that is fair for all involved.
Scoop[/quote]
Yup,
The raise would sure be nice....and I'd really start to lobby for reopening the DFW base. All that and not commute!!
However, from what I'm hearing the food fight is at the top (no suprise there) and the bottom. A guy who talked to a MEM rep says the list is mostly done, we are mostly arguing over the bottom appx 1000. If true that is less than 10% of the list and I would suggest those guys need to be proud that they're important!
JMHO,
Ferd
04-21-2008 | 07:43 AM
#19
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Ferd,
My recommendation would be to bid senior FO and enjoy the QOL - you will still get pay increases. Based on the seniority calculations from DAL4EVR (posted above) this is what you could have done under the relative seniority SLI:
Current
12 yr 757 FO ($98/hr) bid to FO on the 767 400 with a relative loss of seniority and go to $123/hr prior to the pay increase and about $147/hr with the pay increases.
12 yr 757 FO ($98/hr) bid stay on 757 with a relative gain of seniority and go to $109/hr prior to the raise and about $130/hr after the pay increases.
Who knows what equity deal is gone now that the two MEC's could not agree. This seems like a pretty fair deal to me especially since it looks like NW is accelerating the DC-9 departures which was the big worry in the first place for the junior DAL guys. Good luck, hopefully we can still strike a deal that is fair for all involved.
Scoop
My recommendation would be to bid senior FO and enjoy the QOL - you will still get pay increases. Based on the seniority calculations from DAL4EVR (posted above) this is what you could have done under the relative seniority SLI:
Current
12 yr 757 FO ($98/hr) bid to FO on the 767 400 with a relative loss of seniority and go to $123/hr prior to the pay increase and about $147/hr with the pay increases.
12 yr 757 FO ($98/hr) bid stay on 757 with a relative gain of seniority and go to $109/hr prior to the raise and about $130/hr after the pay increases.
Who knows what equity deal is gone now that the two MEC's could not agree. This seems like a pretty fair deal to me especially since it looks like NW is accelerating the DC-9 departures which was the big worry in the first place for the junior DAL guys. Good luck, hopefully we can still strike a deal that is fair for all involved.
Scoop
The raise would sure be nice....and I'd really start to lobby for reopening the DFW base. All that and not commute!!
However, from what I'm hearing the food fight is at the top (no suprise there) and the bottom. A guy who talked to a MEM rep says the list is mostly done, we are mostly arguing over the bottom appx 1000. If true that is less than 10% of the list and I would suggest those guys need to be proud that they're important!
JMHO,
Ferd[/QUOTE]
there has to be a first sometime....
04-21-2008 | 10:41 AM
#20
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NWA management announced the DC-9 and additional domestic cutbacks prior to there being a corporate deal between DAL/NWA. The 10 were in addition to 32 previously announced. The cutbacks take effect this fall, at least 4 months prior to transaction closing and prior to the two companies ability to revenue share. The corporate merger won't be complete until January at the earliest.
The domestic leaves were proferred for the summer flying schedule. How many of those were DC-9?
Your MEC still opposes the merger and is gearing up the NWA "war machine."
Your argument doesn't make sense to me. I'll need some more help how you can place the DC-9 drawdown which your management has accelerated at the feet of the merger and not $115 bbl oil.
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