[quote=Superpilot92;370005]Exactly, the -9's were going to be retired eventually but they are being reduced quicker under the merged scenario. How is that only the NWA pilots problem?

The exact same way your MEC wants the NW pilot retirements to benefit only NWA. Look I am for being fair to eveyone - Junior, Senior, Northerner, Southerner. Just to make Carl happy I will say "It would not be fair to a NW pilot who would not get furloughed at a stand alone NW to get furloughed at a combined company." ;) But if you NW guys want to spread around the pain of aircraft retirements then lets spread it all around - the good and bad and yes even the ugly but on both sides.
This is what I have heard from the union and we have a road show tomorrow so I should have more information. DAL entered into negotiations at a middle of the road point hoping for a deal. NW entered in left field thinking it would go to arbitration. Since we opened in the middle in what was supposed to be nonprejudicial negotiations we would be crazy to enter into arbitration considering our respective openers. All that ended when we didn't reach a deal.
Now we will go to arbitartion if we cannot reach a deal (note- DAL still does not want arbitration but it looks like ist coming). I don't know if DAL enters negotiations from right field to balance out NW's left field opener or we all meet in the middle - anyway lets hope for the best.
Scoop

I appreciate your position on spreading the pain around on both sides Scoop, I truly do. But if you take nothing away from this post remember this: if there is no combined contract after the merger closes, LOA 19's no furlough clause for Delta pilots only will mandate that no furloughs come from the Delta side.

I know getting anyone to really listen to anyone else is difficult with such an emotional and important issue, but what I've just highlighted in bold font is a huge point of leverage for DALPA. With that much leverage, it is hard to imagine real negotiations. But I'm inclined to take the DALPA Chairman at his word so far that he wants a combined agreement and SLI prior to the merger's closing. Since he holds most if not all of the cards, I'll be watching and hoping his actions mirror his words.

Carl

Carl,
From what I understand (which ain't much when it comes to this deal) we will agree to a joint contract first and then work on the SLI next. If this is the case I think both sides will shortly have the same deal - as it should be.
I am curious - Do you think I have a valid point when I question Superpilot about wanting both sides to share the pain of aircraft retirements but preserving pilot retirements for one side?
Scoop

I think you have a very valid point on that Scoop.

Carl

Scoop and Carl:

Scope plays a huge role in the fate of these bottom 1,000 pilots. I would be less concerned about being at the bottom if the DC9 flying was being kept on the seniority list instead of being outsourced to RJ's.

I do not hear either MEC talking about scope. More it seems like scope is being sold again to gain equity and pay that will be unevenly distributed based on seniority.

I agree!

Whats your source on the part in red?

Fuel on the fire
 

Since you guys are all set and ready to sing cumbaya and roast marshmallows over an open fire together how about telling the rest of us what happens to the ground crews,fa,s and others who work with you fella,s at these carriers?Any one done any number crunching as to how many of these ppl get thrown in front of the train? Just curious as for now its all been about the pilots so how about some info on the others that you guys work with what happens to them ?
BTW I predict memphis hub will be first to go after this deal is done say 12 -18 months later.:eek:

The only thing I know for sure is that they ALL get 4% equity in the merged company. Pilots have always been, and will always continue to be dealt with seperately as the only union on the property. What will be interesting will be to see what happens to the unions now on the NWA property... I'm betting they go away (with the possible exception of the FAs, which are voting on AFA, and boy will THAT be fun to watch). Anybody from NWA hearing anything?

Do you honestly think that any of the other employee groups care about what happens with the pilots? Not to be brutal about it, but they need to work it out for themselves. They are big boys and girls and we are not their parents. They have either their own unions or management group to look out for their interests.

Most of NWA's ground folks has been chopped in last BK. Only the hub/focus cities kept their CSA, rampers. (Even those are allowed to stay, quite a few has to change bases/go part-time) All other small cities are contracted out, just like DL contracts some of their gnd. services. NWA kicked most if not all mechanics off the street (remember the standoff between the AFMA vs. mgmt during last bK?) , with all contractors now at their mx stations. Hmm... what else, FA signed a crappy contract during BK, so generally I don't think the cut will be as drastic as others think. Granted, if MEM downsizes, some NWA CSA will be let go, but guess what? They will probably be replaced by 9E, XJ's ground folks.

One thing i "admire" NWA is their ruthlessness in chopping their lifelong employees, leaving them with no pension, just couple months of severance package. But i guess that's why they're a lean, mean fighting machine:)