Charts+ transition
 

These new approach charts are going to be a total joke. ASAPs are going to go through the roof. I like how the company tries to make it sound like they are fantastic. It’s all about being cheaper.

We get to join Lion Air and Air Jordanian...lol
I wish this transition was a joke, but sadly it’s not. If only we had an organization, like a union, to protect us from JO and his marvelous money saving schemes...
I also suspect this will lead to many more leaving such a “wonderful” company... I know I am!
And to all and any of you thinking of coming to MESA, DONT!
The rumors are true, MESA is a very bad company.

Out of curiosity, have you volunteered to help in the union?

You haven't even seen the software or the charts and you've already decided. Chart's a chart. Information on them is mandated by the goverment.


No different then choosing NOS vs Jepp for us "old folk"


You thinking the entire airline is going to explode because we have to read a different chart really shows what you think of your fellow pilots.

Recent Jepp updates on DFW arrivals have been for crap. Have you completed the training yet or are you judging a book by it's cover?

*Mesa. Not “MESA.” You don’t call Delta DELTA or Envoy ENVOY, do you?

Yes, I’ve looked through the training guides. If they’re going to go with something that cheap looking, they might as well just use NOS charts. At least use something most pilots have used at some point.

I agree. NOS would be better.

Charts+
 

It's not just a difference between NOS vs. Jepp and it's not just a different chart format to read; it's a different program which has some problems.

I've been through the initial training on the new Charts+ system and have been using it to back up the Jepp charts on a few of my current routes. In all cases the Charts+ program showed my "copy and pasted", ATC formatted route as RED or in other words "unresolved" by the software.

How, would you be even able to pushback when your charting program doesn't even resolve your route?

Furthermore, the STARs are broken up into separate plates. This will create more fumbling from plate to plate just to finish a STAR route. Okay, I get it that this can be a new skill.

To all of you defending these new charts...quit being toolbags and supporting Mesa getting even cheaper. We already have a joke of a contract, crap pay, and ridiculous medical benefits. The least they could do is keep our Jepp charts.

I have a feeling that most of the folks defending charts+ haven't looked at them very much yet, if at all. They're going to be in for a pretty big shock when they pull up an airport diagram that doesn't have the taxiways labeled...or a STAR chart that's missing half of the procedure...or an ILS approach plate with no CAT I mins listed...or a Mexican DME arc approach with none of the IAFs labeled...and on and on.

Are these the same guys that do the FMS in the Ejet? No wonder the outter fixes on the DFW approaches are missing. I was flying a Mesa flight into DFW when we were given direct to one of these missing fixes and the response from the FO was “unable, we need vectors to final”. The FO didn’t realize he could just load in the fix in manually, but at least he were smart enough not to completely screw things up. Approach gave us a vector and all was well.

Yes. Same vendor. How do you input a fix without the fix being on a chart?

Lol. I guess that is probably the problem and I will have to look. Maybe, these fixes on the ILS approaches into DFW aren’t on these their charts either.

These charts come across as a European vendor who publishes the US charts for European carriers.

Manually entering fixes on the approach is prohibited at some carriers.

Some fixes are in the box. Some you have to enter by lat/long off the Jepp chart.

At least we will have Jepp charts. Oh, wait. Lol.

The ILS minimums issue is fixed in the latest update. There are some other settings in settings that help make it more user friendly as well - turn them all on in preferences.

I hear, plotting of sids and stars is coming.

I flew one referencing the new charts - CRJ - not any issue at all. The fixes while not named ARE on the charts. They ARE NOT FMS DATABASE NAMES or even real intersection names on the Jepps. They are just radial designations and are easy to see on the new charts and were easy to see in the FMS. Ejet milage may vary.

I am interested to see if we get to keep ownship with Charts+. That would be a plus.

Unless I missed something, we are not authorized to open this application in the iPad while flying yet. We are still under a GOM that limits the specific applications we can have open on the flight deck.

I think thats splitting hairs. We are in the parallel period!

Re: ipad battery life.

I did some experimentation. Ipad brightness all the say up. No sleep mode. Same chart displayed.

While open in daytime mode:

New Charts after 15 minutes: 5% battery loss
Jepps after 15 minutes: 3% battery loss

Night Mode

New charts after 30 minutes: 8 Pct
Jepps after 30 minutes: 9 Pct


While Screen is OFF there is no difference in battery drain or any battery drain at all. Turn off your screen when not actively using the ipad. Press the little button at the top of the ipad. I've seen guys just leave them on all the time!

One thing the charts plus by default does is that it disables sleep mode on the device. You can change this setting in the preferences.

Good to know, but still doesn’t change the fact that the actual charts are pure garbage. There’s a reason most airlines in the US have Jepp. Mesa insists on trying to be as dirt cheap as possible.

Well I'm encouraged that the feedback is being received and acted on if you give it to the head of the project. For example the minimums in IAH are fixed in the new update.

Stuff like that should never be an issue to begin with! That’s only a drop in the bucket of the crap wrong with these charts.

Can you be specific?

What memo stated that?

Email of 11.08.18 - "The LMS will conclude on January 1st when a joint in flight use will start until March 1."

Numerous RNAV off the ground departures don’t show connecting lines from the runway to the departure RNAV track..it says HDG ***

DME arcs in Mexico are missing the names of the fixes on the arc

The single engine path out of DCA for RWY 1 says make climbing right turn on the plan view

The SIDs and STARs are ridiculously cluttered

The order of the frequencies on the approach plates make ZERO sense

Is that enough to convince you tools why these charts are total junk?

A crew memo of 11.08.18? Let me look for a crew memo.

Wish it was a formal crew memo. It's not. It needs to be corrected.

Please report the specific instances to Ian.

The one I see that IS critical is the plan view right turn. Just my opinion.

I was not aware that an email is official permission to override the GOM. I really don’t think the parallel has officially started yet. I heard that the federal government shutdown and a debate about power in the flight deck has prevented the approval to proceed.

Good to know. Still a lot of things to fix. The taxi diagrams are still a mess. It looks like they put zero effort into accurate placement of hand-off spots.

If this battery life difference is correct. Sounds like more fuel to keep this Charts+ off the property. We signed a contract with Jepp on the ipad. So if it alters the operation and potential life expectancy of the ipads we currently using. The use of charts+ on our ipads, could trigger a potential grievance. I know this is splitting hairs here, but it actually could come to that. it would be nice if our piece of crap union would say something regarding this latest current event.

Our union is keeping their head down these days. I am less worried about Charts+ than the lack of news about the United contract extensions/renewals.

What exactly do you want them to say? Other us airlines use the software which means the faa has signed off on it. There’s no contractual ground to disavow it, and in fact just the opposite that management rights let the company decide how to run things outside the scope of the contract (I.e. this).

What other US airline uses it? I heard that the FAA is requiring USB power on the flight deck for its use.

We all know how good the Europeans are at making maps. After all Columbus thought he was in India.

Air Wisconsin is the only one I know of.

Good point. If United decides not to extend the EJETs, the charts won’t matter much in the long term.