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-   -   Serious questions about Mesa (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/mesa-airlines/47028-serious-questions-about-mesa.html)

PinnacleFO 01-05-2010 08:03 AM

Serious questions about Mesa
 
Please no bashing on this thread, peoples jobs are at stake

1. In chapter 11 can majors just cancel contracts with no penalty?
2. Your 700's and 900's - are those owned or leased?
3. How many 200's do you have flying for the carriers

I wouldn't be suprised if Mesa ends up an all 700/900 fleet or if they get purchased by someone and that someone may not be republic or Skywest.

Either way good luck to everyone involved, you never know this may lead to something better.

jaybe90 01-05-2010 08:15 AM

Mesa isn't going anywhere. Any jobs that are lost would have been lost anyway due to already announced code share reductions. Due entirely to their poor management, they will now exploit the bankruptcy process in order to shed all their contractural obligations to creditors and shareholders. They will then come back into the industry with no debt and proceed to underbid all competitors who have not shirked their obligations thus dragging down the entire industry! What a great system we have! Before long you will start loosing contracts to the new leaner and meaner mesa and your managements will be coming to you for concessions. The only hope the rest of the industry has is that Mesa fails to show a judge that they are a viable entity and they are forced to liquidate. This is VERY unlikely.

dashtrash300 01-05-2010 08:16 AM

I am pretty sure they can't take the flying away while in chapter 11. I hope I am wrong though.

paxhauler85 01-05-2010 08:21 AM


Originally Posted by PinnacleFO (Post 738211)
Please no bashing on this thread, peoples jobs are at stake

1. In chapter 11 can majors just cancel contracts with no penalty?
2. Your 700's and 900's - are those owned or leased?
3. How many 200's do you have flying for the carriers

I wouldn't be suprised if Mesa ends up an all 700/900 fleet or if they get purchased by someone and that someone may not be republic or Skywest.

Either way good luck to everyone involved, you never know this may lead to something better.

All of the facts above can be seen on the Mesa Airlines website under, financial information.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....-reportsAnnual

1. Direct quote from the 2008 annual report:

Airways:
"The code-share agreement is subject to termination prior to that date in various circumstances including: If either US Airways or we become insolvent, file for bankruptcy or fail to pay our debts as they become due, the non-defaulting party may terminate the agreement;"

UA:
The code-share agreement is subject to termination prior to these dates under various circumstances including: If either United or we become insolvent, file bankruptcy or fail to pay debts when due, the non-defaulting party may terminate the agreement;"

DL:
The agreements may be subject to early termination under various circumstances including: If either Delta or we file for bankruptcy, reorganization or similar action or if either Delta or we make an assignment for the benefit of creditors;"


2. From the 2008 annual report:
-200: 2 owned, 50 leased; total: 52.
-700: 8 owned, 12 leased; total: 20.
-900: 14 owned, 31 leased; total: 45.

All Dash-8s and ERJs are leased.

3. Not quite sure, but at least 8 with Airways and 20ish for UA. Those UA numbers are fluid as we continue to draw down with UA. The 8 with Airways can be reduced as well. "Under our code-share agreement, US Airways has the right to reduce the combined CRJ fleets utilized under the code-share agreement by one aircraft in any six-month period."


Looks good to me.

eaglefly 01-05-2010 08:39 AM


Originally Posted by jaybe90 (Post 738222)
Mesa isn't going anywhere. Any jobs that are lost would have been lost anyway due to already announced code share reductions. Due entirely to their poor management, they will now exploit the bankruptcy process in order to shed all their contractural obligations to creditors and shareholders. They will then come back into the industry with no debt and proceed to underbid all competitors who have not shirked their obligations thus dragging down the entire industry! What a great system we have! Before long you will start loosing contracts to the new leaner and meaner mesa and your managements will be coming to you for concessions. The only hope the rest of the industry has is that Mesa fails to show a judge that they are a viable entity and they are forced to liquidate. This is VERY unlikely.

Yes, as this Mesa management representative says...........DO NOT PANIC !!!!!!!!!!!

Everything's going to be fine and we DEFINATELY won't alter your pay and/or work rules in this Chapter 11 process. We're going to come out lean and mean and all the majors will be reversing course and beating our door down. Do not quit, work harder then ever and PLEASE, trust everything we say and DO NOT act in your best interests first.

Future expectations :

- Expect large pay raises and fast upgrades in the future.
- A380 or 777 order will be announced after Chapter 11 complete.
- Acess to Johnny's beachhouse will be available at 1/4 price to all.
- More "stuff" to announced soon !

PinnacleFO 01-05-2010 08:46 AM

so i guess the question becomes, does united, delta, and airways cancel their contracts then?

Diver Driver 01-05-2010 09:06 AM


Originally Posted by PinnacleFO (Post 738262)
so i guess the question becomes, does united, delta, and airways cancel their contracts then?

They very well might. According to all three contracts, the major carriers now have the right to terminate their contracts based on the bankruptcy clause. I suspect Delta at the very least will do so soon as they tried to cancel last year with no luck.

TonyWilliams 01-05-2010 09:14 AM


Originally Posted by paxhauler85 (Post 738232)

From the 2008 annual report:

-200: 2 owned
-700: 8 owned
-900: 14 owned


They're saying $900-ish million in assets. What other assets?

meyers9163 01-05-2010 09:15 AM


Originally Posted by Diver Driver (Post 738279)
They very well might. According to all three contracts, the major carriers now have the right to terminate their contracts based on the bankruptcy clause. I suspect Delta at the very least will do so soon as they tried to cancel last year with no luck.

From the Hub at USairways

Mesa Files for Ch. 11 Protection to Reorganize January 5, 2010 - This morning one of our regional airline partners, Mesa, filed for bankruptcy protection. For US Airways’ customers, Mesa has committed they will continue to operate their full schedule. US Airways customers should not see any disruption to their travel plans as a result of Mesa’s reorganization.
Mesa currently operates 53 CRJ900, CRJ200 and Dash 8-200 aircraft for US Airways and complements larger jet service in approximately 70 markets.

We will keep employees and customers updated on any changes to US Airways’ service throughout Mesa’s reorganization.

rickair7777 01-05-2010 09:15 AM


Originally Posted by PinnacleFO (Post 738262)
so i guess the question becomes, does united, delta, and airways cancel their contracts then?

DAL: Absolutely, expect paperwork later today, effective date next Monday (long enough to realign some DCI flying).

UAL: They already exercised their option to get rid of D8's and 200's, nothing left but 700's. They will definitely not accept any new 700's. Whether they want get rid of their existing 700's depends on...

- UAX capacity situation...will they need more feed this summer?
- Mesa costs vs. other regionals (direct costs plus the hassle of their poor reliability and difficulty to work with)
- Possible concessions mesa might be willing to make in order to stay employed.

US: Similar to UA, except 40 900's would be a little harder to replace. UA has plenty of 700's at other UAX carriers, but US has only the YV 900's so US would have to give up that gauge niche at least temporarily. I'd say mesa's best odds are keeping those 900's (but losing any remaining US 200's) . Not sure about the US D8's . Of course DP hates their guts, so he may just cut em loose while he has the chance. SKW could probably buy the 900's at auction, but that would take a while so there would be an interruption.

I think a likely scenario would be no DAL, little or no UA, 40 US 900's and maybe a few D8's. Basically a PHX hometown regional. About 400 pilots left.


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