|
AF/Airline collaboration??
A1 is going external with the airlines
Air Force meeting with airlines on pilot shortage in May - FederalNewsRadio.com |
Makes for a good headline.
But it's been beat to death; At the legacy/"Big 6", THERE IS NO SHORTAGE..... |
win-win
Give UPT graduates a seniority number! Think of it as a 20 year flow through! :D:D:eek:
|
What kind of crack are these generals smoking?
|
Originally Posted by Flying Boxes
(Post 2331052)
Give UPT graduates a seniority number! Think of it as a 20 year flow through!
|
Originally Posted by Sam York
(Post 2331122)
What kind of crack are these generals smoking?
|
So what you are saying is that AF still hasn't realized that it needs to fix its own internal crap if they want to retain more people...?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Huh???
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 2331187)
They have a bit of leverage. The airlines want changes to mil leave rules and the generals can make that happen.
Sailingfun, you often sound like a cubicle type. So keep in mind the DOD would have to ask the DOL for "special" rules. |
Originally Posted by John Carr
(Post 2331128)
And like the FTA's, a 20 year probation!!!!! )
|
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 2331187)
They have a bit of leverage. The airlines want changes to mil leave rules and the generals can make that happen.
Mil leave rules have nothing to do with Active Duty or anything the generals can change Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 2331187)
They have a bit of leverage. The airlines want changes to mil leave rules and the generals can make that happen.
Don't assume congress would never change USERRA, but probably not anytime soon (with folks engaged on the ground in AFG). |
This is the leverage some of these generals have:
https://www.jqpublicblog.com/general...-choose-leave/ Among the myriad of reasons pilots are getting out, I also think many of us have simply "lost faith" in the mission. They see very little value to the purpose of their deployment/additional duty/training task. Aside from tasks having direct correlation to their primary job, everything else is seen as a hindrance. Asshats like the general who made this comment only furthers the resolve. Take a quick look at this guy's biography. He hasn't been in an operational squadron in 20 years. I argue he would is out of touch. |
Originally Posted by C-17 Driver
(Post 2331601)
This is the leverage some of these generals have:
https://www.jqpublicblog.com/general...-choose-leave/ Among the myriad of reasons pilots are getting out, I also think many of us have simply "lost faith" in the mission. They see very little value to the purpose of their deployment/additional duty/training task. Aside from tasks having direct correlation to their primary job, everything else is seen as a hindrance. Asshats like the general who made this comment only furthers the resolve. Take a quick look at this guy's biography. He hasn't been in an operational squadron in 20 years. I argue he would is out of touch. Just out of curiosity, what could the generals do to help the airlines out wrt to mil leave and what could the airlines possibly offer in return? |
Originally Posted by C130driver
(Post 2331868)
Just out of curiosity, what could the generals do to help the airlines out wrt to mil leave and what could the airlines possibly offer in return?
The military could possibly pay for certain demographics (senior staff tour guys) to stay current. I truly don't think the generals can trade away USERRA, which is what would really get the airlines attention. It's purpose goes far beyond pilot manning. Although I wouldn't put it past some of these arrogant appendages to think that it would be worth selling out all guard and reserve personnel to help fix their management failings. But regardless...The airlines need pilots bad, and plenty of mil guys want out bad. That's not changing anytime soon. Even if legacies offered flow to retirees (as an incentive to stay in the mil for 20), any junior pilot with an excel spreadsheet can determine that the economics don't make sense. |
Um, isn't this called the ANG/AFRC? We have this already. It works bueno until you start treating us like AD and then we walk also.
Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 2331187)
They have a bit of leverage. The airlines want changes to mil leave rules and the generals can make that happen.
|
Originally Posted by TankerDriver
(Post 2333113)
Um, isn't this called the ANG/AFRC? We have this already. It works bueno until you start treating us like AD and then we walk also.
Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk My solution for this pilot crisis? Increase utilization of the guard/reserves. Boost up AGR slots, etc. As rapidly as I want to bail active duty myself along with many of my peers will happily continue serving in the guard/reserves while starting our careers at airlines....2 cents |
Originally Posted by C130driver
(Post 2333889)
My solution for this pilot crisis? Increase utilization of the guard/reserves. Boost up AGR slots, etc. As rapidly as I want to bail active duty myself along with many of my peers will happily continue serving in the guard/reserves while starting our careers at airlines....2 cents
Adding AGR spots, may not do much either. Some squadron can't fill the full time jobs they have, and it's not just as easy as hiring dudes of AD...unless you want to boot all your part-timers. |
25 yrs in the Reserves and My new saying is "the same dumb dumbs that f@cked up the active duty are ****ing up the reserves". Its just gotten stupid. Dont worry General Miller will save us.
|
This is a simple problem that will never be fixed. Congress and/or the military needs to make the military an attractive option. Period. They will never do that due to reasons that would require I use half the silicon on the planet to type it out.
Hint, most people don't join the military because of pay but they leave when they're treated like shlt and are forced to participate in some grand social experiment. |
I was talking to some junior NCOs last week about their take on the new retirement system... each one said, without exception, that without a pension, there's no reason to stay in... pay and benefits for contractors are muy bueno.
Get trained in the military, bail for the private sector, get paid. It's so bad, all around, that it almost makes you wonder if it's intentional. |
Originally Posted by MikeF16
(Post 2336179)
Hint, most people don't join the military because of pay but they leave when they're treated like shlt and are forced to participate in some grand social experiment.
Originally Posted by Speed Select
(Post 2336201)
It's so bad, all around, that it almost makes you wonder if it's intentional.
|
Originally Posted by Speed Select
(Post 2336201)
I was talking to some junior NCOs last week about their take on the new retirement system... each one said, without exception, that without a pension, there's no reason to stay in... pay and benefits for contractors are muy bueno.
Get trained in the military, bail for the private sector, get paid. It's so bad, all around, that it almost makes you wonder if it's intentional. Did these NCOs not read about the system? You get matching funds, plus if you make it to 20 you get 2x number of years served avg high 3 pay. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by MikeF16
(Post 2336179)
This is a simple problem that will never be fixed. Congress and/or the military needs to make the military an attractive option. Period. They will never do that due to reasons that would require I use half the silicon on the planet to type it out.
Hint, most people don't join the military because of pay but they leave when they're treated like shlt and are forced to participate in some grand social experiment. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by ps2sunvalley
(Post 2336511)
Did these NCOs not read about the system? You get matching funds, plus if you make it to 20 you get 2x number of years served avg high 3 pay.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Im a 10 year o4 who falls under the middle group who can choose to convert or remain, and i will unequivocably be opting to remain under the old system. That .5 multiplier difference becomes a 10% pension payable immediately. Thats money saved from my own check i can use for a higher lifestyle in working age. Its beyond insulting they even made my year group eligible for that garbage in the first place, as i wouldnt even have the maturity date to take advantage of the supoosed compound interest. It would be one thing if we were talking about an airline A fund. THAT promise is not worth the paper is written on. But we re talking about a DOD A fund. I can come up with plenty yellow ribbons and political ads to justify that payment until my death. To each their own. To be clear, the B fund portion of this hybrid system is only 1%, the rest is mickey mouse 401k. You know what 1% of e5 money is? Happy meal money once a year. The real truth here is that the Dod is not saving that much money on a 10% A fund shave. They did this to give math illiterate one termers the illusion that theres a real retirement benefit to not making it to 20, while preserving the kind of regional airline style occupational turnover the military is institutionally known for. They dont want early millennials like me who can count with their fingers and figure out our daddys retirement was in fact better, and im gonna get mine too. In the words of good fellas: Eff you pay me. Boomers are not gonna bend me over twice in life i can assure you of that. If i was a post 2018 new entrant (when the hybrid becomes the only option) no way in hell i stay for a full 20, the airline b fund is way ahead at that point. To repeat myself: IF IT COMES OUT OF MY PAYCHECK, IT'S NOT A BENEFIT, YO. |
Originally Posted by hindsight2020
(Post 2336572)
In what universe is a retirement contribution you have to fund from your own paycheck beat an A fund? Thats some common core math right there.
Im a 10 year o4 who falls under the middle group who can choose to convert or remain, and i will unequivocably be opting to remain under the old system. That .5 multiplier difference becomes a 10% pension payable immediately. Thats money saved from my own check i can use for a higher lifestyle in working age. Its beyond insulting they even made my year group eligible for that garbage in the first place, as i wouldnt even have the maturity date to take advantage of the supoosed compound interest. It would be one thing if we were talking about an airline A fund. THAT promise is not worth the paper is written on. But we re talking about a DOD A fund. I can come up with plenty yellow ribbons and political ads to justify that payment until my death. To each their own. To be clear, the B fund portion of this hybrid system is only 1%, the rest is mickey mouse 401k. You know what 1% of e5 money is? Happy meal money once a year. The real truth here is that the Dod is not saving that much money on a 10% A fund shave. They did this to give math illiterate one termers the illusion that theres a real retirement benefit to not making it to 20, while preserving the kind of regional airline style occupational turnover the military is institutionally known for. They dont want early millennials like me who can count with their fingers and figure out our daddys retirement was in fact better, and im gonna get mine too. In the words of good fellas: Eff you pay me. Boomers are not gonna bend me over twice in life i can assure you of that. If i was a post 2018 new entrant (when the hybrid becomes the only option) no way in hell i stay for a full 20, the airline b fund is way ahead at that point. To repeat myself: IF IT COMES OUT OF MY PAYCHECK, IT'S NOT A BENEFIT, YO. It doesn't "old fart". Yeah you contribute 5% and the DOD will match that 5%. Still leaves you with 5% in your pocket that you would not otherwise get if you don't make it to 20. And guess what, nobody is guaranteed 20. So I'm gonna take my 5% and shut up now. "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
As a member, I am embarrassed that the General is going to go to the airlines for answers. How about you listen to your people! This is exactly why there is a retention problem.
More so, they created the retention problem. Circa 2006 we saw two rounds of voluntary separations which paid $100k to Captains and Majors to leave. Before that we saw involuntary separations for LTs and Junior captains. Guess what rank those people would be today and who would be eligible for pay bonuses? If I were active duty I'd be worried sick about a potential stop loss. We've seen stop losses announced for smaller issues. I'm so glad I dropped retirement paperwork. See ya chair force. |
|
Originally Posted by Grumble
(Post 2340450)
|
Buh-Bye
Originally Posted by Grumble
(Post 2340450)
|
What's the process to even establish a stop loss for active duty? How long could it be in effect? I know the reserves had one last year (at least for pilots) but it was maybe only a year long.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Stop Loss?? Good luck! Gen Everhart is bluffing, or needs to be tested for smoking crack.
They will get pummeled by Congress if they try it. Never mind the long term effects that will overshadow the near-term "success" in keeping pilots. |
Originally Posted by HuggyU2
(Post 2340828)
Stop Loss?? Good luck! Gen Everhart is bluffing, or needs to be tested for smoking crack.
They will get pummeled by Congress if they try it. Never mind the long term effects that will overshadow the near-term "success" in keeping pilots. |
What effect (if any) does Stop Loss have on ARC members? Would a TR suddenly not be able to go IRR or simply quit? I realize that AD members simply cannot get out until the Stop Loss is over...anyone have experience with being a part timer care to share?
|
Originally Posted by DirtyPurple
(Post 2340888)
What effect (if any) does Stop Loss have on ARC members? Would a TR suddenly not be able to go IRR or simply quit? I realize that AD members simply cannot get out until the Stop Loss is over...anyone have experience with being a part timer care to share?
Yeah, so I went from being a TR pilot to a category E reservist (non flying and points only). I couldn't switch over to that last year until after November 1 because of a stop loss in ARC... I don't even know when it started and the only reason I knew about it was because it delayed my transition to category E last April. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by awakenedpilot
(Post 2340905)
Yeah, so I went from being a TR pilot to a category E reservist (non flying and points only). I couldn't switch over to that last year until after November 1 because of a stop loss in ARC... I don't even know when it started and the only reason I knew about it was because it delayed my transition to category E last April.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by Tanker-driver
(Post 2340961)
That wasn't even a "real" stop loss. That was all based on a bs "loss management" memo put out by the AFRC/CC. I'd expect those types of shenanigans to continue.
True... but it kept myself and others from being able to switch over. Pulled the wool over everyone's eyes- no one even questioned the seriousness of that memo. Funny how that works! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by Tanker-driver
(Post 2340961)
That wasn't even a "real" stop loss. That was all based on a bs "loss management" memo put out by the AFRC/CC. I'd expect those types of shenanigans to continue.
Oh and btw....IT'S BACK! We just got the memo for this year. November 1st, retro to April 1st for affected dates in status change. I.e. Those with retire papers/transfers before 1 April will be allowed to go through. Otherwise, the ARPC office is gone fishin' for you until 1 Nove. Yeah buddy! |
Trust me, I know. I was one of those transitioning TRs. No concern whatsoever from leadership from the squadron level on up. I had a couple replies from my senior senator, but that stopped when she consulted some senate liaison who told her it was all on the up and up. Bottom line, I think the AF can do this and no one will care except those affected. Take care of number 1 folks. No one is looking out for you. Doing the right thing by your people went by the wayside a while ago in the AF
|
Btw, actual Stop Loss can only be declared by the POTUS and/or be delegated to SECDEF. "Loss Management" memos and the like are total BS.
|
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:47 AM. |
User Alert System provided by
Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) -
vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Website Copyright ©2000 - 2017 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands