Air National Guard
 

I would like to join the ANG to receive flight training on heavy jets (Mobility pilot I believe?), I have no real interest in fighters. I am about 1 year away from receiving my Bachelor's degree in the healthcare field, which I plan to finish before I join. However, I have a few questions:

1: My main goal is to work cargo (FedEx, etc.) after everything is said and done. Is this a good path? I was researching the different branches, (USAF, USMC, etc.) and each had their advantages, however it seemed like the odds of becoming a pilot were not very good. I do not mind serving, I feel it is my duty to serve. However, I do not want to make a 4+ year commitment with intentions to fly, then not receive flight training if not selected. That is when I came across some threads here suggesting the ANG. After more research, I feel this is the best option, however I would like more opinions as well for my specific goals.

2: I plan to start working towards my PPL while also working on my Bachelor's degree. I am wondering if having a PPL may give me some sort of advantage when applying to the ANG? Regardless, I will still get my PPL, but I am just curious.

3: How many flight hours can I expect to receive during UPT? After my 2 years of "active duty" receiving my training, I would like to work for the ANG part-time as well as hold a regional airline job to build more hours to eventually reach my goal. Would I even receive enough flight hours after UPT to be competitive enough for a regional job?

4: What are requirements to fly for the ANG (vision, etc.)? Are they the same as the other branches?

Any and all suggestions are welcome, as I wish to learn as much as I can during this time. I have a wife and 2 kids at home, so this is not an easy decision to make. Thank you in advance.

Military flight training is the best in the world, but if you don't want to serve in the military and it's a just a stepping stone-look elsewhere.

1. If non-selected or wash out of UPT you will be separated.

2. Yes, a private pilot certificate is preferred, if not more experience. I sent a B747 FO to UPT. It's s PPL in Europe and a certificate in the US.

3. About 250 hours. Yes, after seasoning training, your a part-time ANG pilot--about 6-12 days a month.

4. The exact same requirements and the same training program.

GF

Thank you. Like I mentioned, I do not mind serving. My goal is to get flight training, so I'm looking for the avenue to give me the highest chance for that.

What is the commitment time for the ANG?

Honestly, your choice of language is a little worrisome. Guard units...or any military unit for that matter...don't want someone who "doesn't mind" serving. That's not how this works. You either want to serve, or you don't. It's all in, or not at all. If you're only joining up to get your ratings, then please do us all a favor and find another way.

There's nothing wrong with wanting something in return for your sacrifice, but if the only reason you do it is for personal gain, that's not going to cut it.

I apologize if I offended you, or anyone. Let me clarify. When I say I don't mind, it is not a "I can take it or leave it" attitude. I want to serve. I feel it is a privilege and I am excited for the opportunity. As stated, my goal is to become a cargo pilot, and I am deciding on which branch which branch to join that will give me the best chance of earning flight training while still serving my country.

Devil's advocate--knowing where you want to go and being willing to pay the price to get there isn't necessarily a bad ethos in today's leadership environment. It might be the best way to stay sane while getting the job done.

That being said, the OP should probably be prepared to talk about being motivated to serve and excited about the unit mission in an interview.

I wouldn't be too keen on cargo v. pax flying/ FedEx v other carriers. As many on this board will tell you, take the first job that comes. You can always quit one airline for another, happens all the time. My buddy quit southwest airlines training on day 3 to go to United haha.

But first, you got to get your flight hours. Find an air national guard or reserve unit. Go to UPT, come back and kill it in the guard unit. Deploy, upgrade, fly your tail off.

Then at 750 hours you can apply to a regional. Use that to get to 1500 then you meet the bare minimum for a major airline/ FedEx.

I love flying airplanes but the experiences I've got flying C-130s for the Air Force and serving are cherished memories. Plus the military is a solid fallback to keep flying if the airlines don't work out. It is a very volatile industry.

Highly recommend a C-130 unit (sorry 17 and C5 guys I love you.) Airlines count 130 time as "turbine" even though it is technically a turboprop.

need some advice
 

i am currently at a regional..north of 1000 turbine SIC, and north of 1,000 dual given-instructor time(CFI,MEI,CFII)..back in college i was in afrotc, but at field training had a knee injury and couldn't finish the run in time. long story short, got sent home and went the civilian route. as i get closer to being too old for the military, the itch to apply to a guard unit is growing stronger. my only concern is the afoqt..its been like 8 years or so since i had any math class, and when i took the afoqt back in college, i passed but a kc135 buddy of mine recommended i retake it to boost my scores..im nervous Ill do worse and since they use the most recent, not the better of the two, I'm left scratching my head on the best option. retake it, or just apply with my scores from 5 years ago..and if i just used my scores from 5 years ago would it look bad that i didn't even try to take it again?

also what are the best afoot prep books since the test changed?

To add to tahoejase, I've been a Reserve SQ/DO and OG/CC and pilots who join just for training become problems for both the unit and themselves. To say nothing about what happens on an activation. Being a reservist is a whole career and demands a lot of effort and time. As an Colonel used say, "you only volunteer ONCE in this program".

The commitment is ten years, post UPT graduation, same as AD, but as a Guardsman or Reservist.

GF

You guys are being too nice.

Listen here: if you are not 100% committed to serving your country, possibly going to war, and an 11 year commitment, then find another way.

Do yourself and the military a big favor.

Not trying to be that guy, because I generally agree OP's tone shows lack of commitment to service, but to play devil's advocate I knew guys at the academy who were going just for a free year or two of college and resume building with plans to quit and who didn't really want to be in the Army, some who were planning on just doing 5 years, getting the service academy education and leadership experience and wanting to go to Wall St., and some who were complete clowns at the academy, showed no interest in being decent officers, and who I thought took up a slot for someone more dedicated to military service. Some, if not many of these guys/gals, ended up being better officers than most, and many stayed for longer than their commitment and will be lifers. They embraced it on the flip side, when the suck really got others like me to punch. Some of the most hard core guys who we thought for sure were going to be lifers bailed. So, I don't judge a guy for not knowing what he doesn't know...especially a high school/recent hs kid. Perhaps OP will love mil flying...decide once in to stay in forever, volunteer for a bunch of deployments, etc. Or maybe he won't.

PMed you.....

Options?
 

Well for some time now I am pondering the same question as I'm sure most every other pilot has faced...

I'm only 19 years old with all my ratings up to CFI/CFII. Early last summer whilst just graduating high school, Embry Riddle Aeronautical University contacted me offering a sizable check that covers most of my tuition at the school if I promise to work for them for the four years I will be here whilst earning a degree in Aeronautics. I figured this to be a pretty sweet deal so how could I not accept it?

But the question I am facing is what I want to do with this career path I have chosen. Military or civilian? By the time I graduate from ERAU I will have well over 1500 hours so options are opening up. I have talked to many pilots trying to get there take on my dilemma. Some have said to join the military, but pilot spots are hard to obtain. Others say to join the airlines right out of college and obtain a great seniority spot.

The other day I met an Air Force guy who is a reservist but still flies regularly with his C-17 unit whilst flying 319/20's for AAL. This guy previously spent 10 years active duty and attended a military college in Virginia. Given my present position, I cannot take that same path... However a couple of days ago I came across the Air National Guard page and liked what they had to offer. At a minimum members are required to work one weekend a month and 15 days a year (for a specific unit). Being a member while holding an airline position sounds awesome, and I would love to make that a reality for myslef.

However the ANG has several requirements for people who have not served before. Some of these requirements include taking the ASVAB and attending Basic Military Training at Lackland AFB. How would this workout for me? Should I attend this after college and put a hold on joining the airlines right away? Or am I looking in the wrong direction entirely?

As far back as I can remember I have wanted to serve and be apart of the military family. However my pilot training in the past has naturally led me into the position I am in. The military is not an easy lifestyle as I am told, but it's something that my gut is telling me to do.

All in all I just want to know if I am on the right path and looking in the right direction. Should I go straight to the regionals, secure a job/seniority spot, then look into a military career? Or should I go for a military career right out of college? Any insight that you guys can provide would greatly be appreciated.

Respectfully,

Nelson

Nelson,

I admire the fact that you want to serve. Definitely talk to as many different military pilots as possible to get a well-rounded perspective about the realities of being a military pilot, it's definitely not for everyone. You will make sacrifices going the military route; expectation management and realizing it's a service to the nation first will help you out tremendously.

An excellent hybrid approach to help you achieve your goals is to take the scholarship, instruct your way to 1,500 hours while finishing your degree, and secure a seniority number at a regional airline. After completing your ATP, start rushing Guard units. If you get picked up to fly for the Air Force, your airline, under USERRA, will put you on 'military leave' from your civilian job and will hold your seniority number during your training. That way, when you return to part-time status after completing your training, you'll have your airline job waiting for you with increased seniority and the ability to structure your schedule to maximize flight time with the airlines and unit, building your resume for the 'next tier' civilian job. Win-win.

You have to have the degree to join the military as an officer. Just work your way thru ERAU, all the while being in touch with as many ANG/AFRC units as possible. Upon graduation, you’ll have a good chance to go into OCS and UPT soon.

GF

First, are you interested in a reserve military career or a reserve military flying career? I ask because of what I did.

My first airline job was as a flight attendant at a legacy carrier. It was right out of college and it didn't take long to figure out I was on the wrong side of the door.

I tried to fly in the ANG but that didn't work out either. But, I stayed in and retired from at ARNG after 20 years.

If you start a job at an airline, then enlist in the Reserve/NG, your employer must give you time off to attend mandatory military training. That includes basic training.

If you want a flying career with an airline AND a military flying career in the Reserves/NG, then you will put in more than one weekend a month plus your annual training requirement every calendar year. I enlisted, was commissioned about two years later and stayed as a non-rated officer for the remainder of my military career. Believe me, I did put in extra time and not all of it was paid, especially when I was a company commander.

However, I recommend finishing college first. While I was a company commander, I had one soldier attending community college in the DFW area. He was going to miss a final exam while at annual training and the college was unwilling to accommodate his request for an alternate exam date. His platoon leader and I sent him home two days early with an advance detachment so he could be back in time for the exam. The school was under no legal obligation to accommodate his military training requirements whereas employers are.

If you don't fly in the Reserve/NG, I still recommend serving in a non-flying position. For me, it's extra retirement income and Tri-Care medical coverage once I turned 60.

Maybe. Depends on your priorities. You can make a better case for military reserve flying than non-flying.

Pros:
- Alternative source of income for dues-paying years
- No schedule conflicts with airline job
- Tricare
- Retirement
- Fallback position in case of furlough. Probably won't help with medical issues, if you can't fly, you're probably not healthy enough for AD.

Cons:
- Invol activations/deployments. Deployments are a hardship, sometimes more for your family than you.
- Monthly and annual bidding and vacation hassles. Your life tends to revolve around scheduled military duty periods.
- If military service (esp. deployments) delays your civilian career progression (especially right now), the pension may not make up for lost airline wages at the end of your flying career. Military reserve easily cost me five years of airline seniority. My pension will be about $35K, but I'll have to live to a ripe old age for that to get out in front of the lost seniority.

This all assumes you have an actual desire to serve. If so, by all means sign up and do it, but don't automatically commit to 20+ years without considering all factors.

That said, reserves was an absolute no-brainer for me as a member of the lost generation. But that was then, this is now.

Dumb questions...
 

I have a dumb question. What is this "seasoning" thing I keep reading about, and how long does it take? From what I've read it's time in your reserve squadron post FRS or whatever the AF calls it. Are you just joe-shmo squadron pilot (sweet), or do you get to be the urinalysis coordinator and ride the duty desk (not sweet)? Also, what determines whether or not you have to go through various phases of UPT?


Thanks

Also, for the guy who started this thread: The Marine Corps does guaranteed pilot slots before you accept a commission. In order to be eligible you must love long hours, sexual harassment prevention training, getting your sh*t pushed in, and drinking heavily.

While on seasoning your primary responsibility is to get comfortable flying your aircraft and getting fully mission qualified/ready for operational missions. You may be assigned an additional duty (snacko) but the focus is on flying. Seasoning is between 3 and 7 months depending on the airframe and funding. And as far as I know, everybody goes through every phase of UPT regardless of past flying experience. Those who have a PPL can bypass IFS but that’s not part of UPT.

I would compare what your costs would be at ERAU after their offer compared to what an engineering tuition would be at your state university. A degree in aviation management from ERAU is not worth a great deal outside of the aviation field and only a 'square filler' within it. If you are an Indiana resident and could go to Purdue or a Georgia resident and could go to Georgia Tech for in-state tuition you should seriously consider that route. You could still do all the other Guard and ROTC stuff at those schools. At the end of four years you would have a degree in something like Mechanical or Civil Engineering that will serve you pretty much no matter what accident or illness may befall you. If you do stay in aviation, you would still be better off with a respected engineering degree from a school like Purdue or Georgia Tech or similar state school. Just my two cents.

Thanks for the info. Hopefully you're mistaken about UPT! I can't decide if going through flight school again would be a great deal or a total blower. It's hard to get excited about the prospect of moving to Enid and doing stand up EPs.

I'll also second F4's advice. I was an aviation management major many moons ago and switched to finance after reading this forum. What you could do is take a lot of aviation classes your first two years and then change majors. If you do that, you can work on your pilots licenses / ground school initially and still get a worthwhile major out of it. Just talk to a counselor so you don't waste too much cash on classes that wont count toward electives in your follow on major.

There's no "hopefully". Going from rotary wing to a fixed wing USAF/ANG position requires UPT. There are no waivers, partial courses, etc. My UPT class had an Army apache pilot trying to make the switch. He barely made it past solo.
You do the whole thing. You probably do well based on past experience, but you still do the whole thing.

If you went through Navy pilot training and did T34s/T6s, would you have to do that phase again? As an army guy we had no T34/T6 and we have to do all of UPT. Worth it for me even with the UPT “haze” to fly a fast jet at the end. I think flying a T6/T38 is still more fun than my airline job, so doing flight school again is fine by me, especially to fly fighters for another 10+ years after. Ymmv.

I don't think Sea Service RW people have to do UPT again, since they did T-6/34 in primary.

Agree. Although one usmc helo guy I met rushing was told by an ANG unit that he had to do it again, even though, ironically, he did USAF T6s for his primary. He was told since he didn’t do T1s/T38s he didn’t “complete UPT” and therefore has to redo all of it. I think there’s a way to go straight to T1s/T38s for dudes like that. In fact there’s supposedly a guard tanker unit that had a USAF helo guy go straight to Altus and bypass T1s. I don’t know how they swung that, but that’s the word from one of my bros in the unit.

I guess anything is possible if the right people want to make it happen, whether that's bypassing the first half of UPT or going straight to Altus.

Then there's the reality of executing this plan. T-34s a decade-ish ago, AD service commitment in helos or some other RW and now the transition plan to the ANG is mission numero uno in the white rocket? T-1 might work. T-38? Pretty ambitious I'd say.

It’s been a long time, but didn’t USAF helo guys go thru UPT, then get their helo assignment? In that case, going to Altus makes sense. I sent 3 Army helo guys to the old UPT conversion course, which was darn near UPT, but it’s gone.

GF

USAF helo guys go through the T6 portion of UPT, then go to helo training when everyone else goes T38/T1. USN/USMC is the same as the USAF in that regard. Army is the only service that is straight helos from the start (although they recently introduced an initial entry fixed wing track with no helos involved at all). So to me it makes sense that if someone already did T6s (or T34s before the navy switched to T6s), then helos, picking up in the T1/T38 phase would make sense. Bypassing T1s doesn’t make as much sense. But redoing the entire T6 track seems like a waste if they’ve already done it.

GF, you are correct. In the before time when we all flew jets and T38s were painted white, Rucker was a post grad course for helo assigned folks, who went there with wings. The SUPT track system brought the changes that started sending folks to Rucker after T-37s and now T-6s in the mid 90s

Shirley you can't be serious...
 

First off, I'm pretty butt hurt you compared me to an Army Apache guy :D Plopter folk do the entire maritime syllabus in the C-12 and I spend the majority of my time aloft as an airplane, cruising at a respectable 220-240. I have also never briefed "go lower, slower, and land if necessary" as part of my IIMC plan. Surely I will test out of a few AF classes with that!

No offense meant. My classmate's lack of success was less relevant than the fact that he was required to complete UPT in its entirety.
However, as I did mention, if the right people want an abbreviated course to happen, then I guess anything's possible. I think "testing out" of portions of UPT is not a very common happening, but neither is a pilot from another service trying to mesh his previous training with that of the AF.

I will stand by my suggestion that someone whose mental clock has been kind of set in the 220-240 knot range may take a little while to re-adjust to the timing in a T-38.

Anyone have any contacts with the JAX Guard? I'd be humbled and priveleged to fly fighters anywhere, but home life will be centered around JAX.

Wide-eyed Viper Crew Chief here.. about to graduate from AABI 141 program.

3.7 Major GPA
250 Hours
Will graduate with Commercial SEL/MEL, CFI
AFOQT: Pilot - 98, Nav - 89
TBAS to be completed..
Four years as a Crew Chief.. one Red Flag, one Deployment
Life long athlete, President of this, Volunteered for that.. you all know the gig.

Any and all tips, advice & insults greatly appreciated.. you know wrench-turners can take it (and send it right back!)

Cheers.

I'll be ok...I guess :D Interesting info all the same. It does make me wonder if it's worth it though. Doing the whole shebang over again is a huge time commitment. Makes me wonder if I should just stay on my side of the fence and focus on gettting 121 experience at a regional.

I'll start...First of all, this post is obviously a fake. Anyone who has been drinking fuel samples and meching for the last 4 years is not going to get a 3.7 on any test other than a Breathalyzer. That is of course unless they started offering degrees in drinking monsters, vaping, and complaining about how hard you work.

How's that :D ?

Ok, fair enough.

It sounds like your ultimate goal is an airline job. If you can get yourself into an RJ cockpit reasonably easily, that's going to be a much faster path to your goal. Going through some version of UPT and jumping into a fighter cockpit is going to take many years to achieve the same goal. Even if you get into a cargo or tanker unit, it's going to take a while.

You're probably going to have to pick up the phone and start kicking doors down. Those are good qualifications, pending your not some mouse or major a******, you should be able to apply that well. Have fun - good luck if you need it.

Yup, search for the squadron via the Google, find a phone number, call them and ask to speak with the squadron DO (Director of Operations / Operations Officer). Tell him/her who what where and ask about their pilot hiring process.

Good luck!

Breathalyzers are the only tests I enjoy studying for!!! 😉

Thanks for the props, y’all. I’m just having a tough time getting my foot in the door at out-of-state units.. Jacksonville in particular. If anyone on here can help me shake a hand during UTA there’s a bottle of Jack coming your way as a thank you!! As much as an Internet promise is worth, I’m not a cocky, “I’ve got this ******* in the bag” candidate. I know my buzz words and how to carry myself in an Ops building. Trying to not bank on a strong resume getting me an interview without the proper facetime.

I should add- I spend every morning on bogidope, guardreservejobs, etc. and constantly cold call/send professional emails to the previous years’ hiring POC’s