AZFlyer

Guys, Im faced with a choice that I would like some input on from those of you who have, as they say, 'been there, done that, bought the t-shirt.'

The facts:
- Im 23 yrs old.
- Good physical shape w/ no medical issues other than wearing contact lenses.
- Working on my instrument rating and plan on going through commercial multi at the least.
- Earning a BS in Air Transportation Management.
- Am employed in customer service/ramp for a regional airline at PHX.
- *Long term* goal is to fly for a major airline.

Ive always had an interest in military aviation, but have never been quite sure if the military life is for me. If I go the military route, I would serve with full effort and will, and not treat it as just a 'stepping stone' to the airlines.

I'd like to know ALL about flying with the Air National Guard as I may choose to pursue this when I finish school.

HOWEVER, I also have the opportunity to be hired as a pilot at my regional airline with lower time (once I finish all my ratings and fly a bit, of course), with help from some of the pilots and management, and also because I've been with the company for awhile.

I'm stuck without knowing more about the ANG to make a decision in my situation.

My preference, by the way, should I meet the requirements, is to fly fighters.

I would much like to hear from you guys about this before I go to a recruiter and hear his sales pitch about how perfect the military life is for me!

Thanks!

AZF

RedeyeAV8r

AZF I've been there and done that...............

If you want to go the Military route, good for you.
Do not choose the Military Flying simply as a stepping stone to the Airlines.
Choose it for it for the following reasons:
1. You want to serve your country (and preferably as a Pilot)
2. You want to fly fighters (and potentailly kill people in a far away land after your Flight training).
You can also say I want to fly C-17's but personally fighters would be my first choice, although it is highly competitve to get a fighter slot.
3. You are willing to give up 10 years or more of your life and are willing to spend up to 14 months at a time deployed to some Sh*t hole of a country.
4. And be ready to serve in a non-pilot job in the military because you probably will have to at least once in a 10 year commitment, as well as being ready to put up the
Military Lifestyle in general: Move often, Deploy Often, Long hours and days, Ocasionally get shot at.........etc. If you stay single this isn't as big of a deal. If you are married (or get that way), It will become a Big Deal, bigger still if you have kids. Probably 40% of my Mil Buds went through atleast one divorce. That being said there are few more Honorable and personal rewarding postions than an Officer in the Military.

As A military trained Pilot, you will definitely have the advantage if you decide to apply to the Majors later on, but as I said, make this decision after you've been in and served, not before.

The Air Guard is certainly a good way to go, if you can get in and get a flying slot. These can be very Political but it is doable. The Guard is becoming more and more like Active duty because our Military is strectched pretty thin due to too many commitments (Thanks GWB)

If you really aren't ready to do the above and Airline flying is what you really want, I would go with Plan B Mesa after you get all your ratings and minimum flight time ( I assume that is who you work for) and pay your dues until you get that magical 1000 hours PIC Jet time. Be ready for a rocky unstable road in your career progression, Low pay, Bankruptcies and furloughs are likely and common place. As long as you keep you expectations realisitic, you won't be too disappointed.

It sounds to me like you are at minimum 4-6 years away from having a shot at a Major. 1-2 more years to get your quals and more flgiht time to meet Mesa Mins. 2 years as a Mesa FO and hopefully 2 years as a Mesa CAPT flying a RJ to be competitive for the Majors.

So if Airline Flying is what you really want, I would choose plan B otherwise the Military is a great place to spend 10 years of your life and quite possibly a career.............although I'm Old school Military and the new Military is too Politically correct for My tastes.

Good Luck in your future endeavors

AZFlyer

Thanks for your reply, RedEye.

A simpler question for you or anyone else.....

How long does it generally take for pilots to become acclimated to the type of flying required of fighter pilots?

For a guy to go from primarily straight and level flight into the high-g and abrupt maneuvers of a fighter must be a bit disorienting at first, I would think...maybe even causing airsickness in the begining. I've never experienced any aerobatic flight (other than pushing my piper into a steep dive for a few seconds of weightlessness, hardly aerobatic, I know), so I don't know yet how my body will tolerate the ride!

I remember a couple of my first few flights at the begining of my training brought a little bit of stomach discomfort, but that went away. Perhaps its the same thing?

Vito

AZFlyer,

2 points, One As far as I know unless you have 20/20 vision you won't get a pilot slot. The 20/20 requirement may have changed, but I've never heard about it.
Second, there is a huge difference between flying miltary and civilian. Many civilian pilots understandably believe that flying mil aircaraft is the same as flying civilian except the mil stuff is faster, better performing etc...I guarantee you that you can "Fly" an F-15 or F-16 quite easily with about 30 hours of training, hell I flew a T-38 quite easily with about 100 hours total time. The difference is NOBODY CARES HOW YOU FLY THE AIRCRAFT, its how you are able to EMPLOY THE AIRCRAFT AS A WEAPON. There is a huge difference. You have to be able to think way ahead of the jet..anticipate events way before they occur and prepare for them, and improvise. I know a few guys who were great pilots at pilot training and were selected to fly F-15's but they "washed-out" of the F-15 course, I often wondered why, and the answer is, its very very difficult to prioritize highly demanding tasks in a fluid environment with 3 radio's blaring orders at you , and oh, by the way you doing 460 knots at 500 AGL with another jet a few feet away! trust me after missions like that, flying an ILS to mins is childs play. I don't mean to deter you from your goals, go for it!!! just trying to shine some light on an aspect of flying alot of civillians don't understand.
Good Luck, I hope you give the military a shot!!!
its made all the difference in my life!
Vito

RedeyeAV8r

It has been a while, but in Primary flight training they take you up for a "FAM" ride (familiarization). They do Loops and Barrel rolls, spins and other basic aerobatic manuevers. Many folks get airsick but some do not. I remember feeling a little unsteady on the first two. After about 3 rides, they can usually tell who has the Stomach for it and who doesn't. Some guys barfed their guts out and quit, others barfed their guts out but kept going. Everyone is different. Some folks adapt much quicker than others.

If you are lucky enough to get fighters, they do sort of the same thing when you go out on your first Fighter ride. The Manuevers are pretty much the same but they happen faster and are more intense. The G forces are much higher. Some guys got queezy on their first or second fighter ride, but by then it ususally passes quickly.

crewdawg

Must have been away from the AF for a while! You can have up to 20/70 without a waiver and up to 20/200 with a waiver. Now thay are many other factors but my vision was 20/50 with -1.50 refractive error and I didn't need a waiver. Goodluck


Redeye: Most AEF rotations are nowhere near 14 months...more like 4 months and even less if you are in the guard. Unless you are talking about remotes like Kunsan.

AZFLYER: The guard is a great way to go. I would start looking around right now and keep building you total time. If I were you I would try to get hired at a regional so if you do get a slot you will have a job to go back to when you get out of training. Not to mention all the time you are at training you will be building seniority at the regional. If you go fighters look to be on active duty training for about 4 years, heavies around 2 years.

If you have any ? feel free to PM me.

rickair7777

Sounds like you have the opportunity to talk to some mesa pilots...ask them about their pay, benefits, and QOL. Then compare that with the military package

ANG is the way to go if you want to maximize your airline opportunities while serving your country.

Vito

Crewdawg,

I'm still in! but was unaware of the vision requirements changing. I always thought the 20/20 req was a little harsh, I'm sure the AF lost out on a great number of pilots due to less than perfect vision. When did it change?
Vito

Fly4Pay

I couldn't agree more...

Here's my two cents worth. Being a pilot is great, BUT... don't use the military as a "training ground" for the airline. You'll hate it. The only reason you should join the military is because military service is something you feel drawn to do. Sure you build great hours, and these days the pay is not bad, but it's not about the flying--it's about serving your country.

By joining the military, you agree to put your service ahead of your own agenda, your family, perhaps even your life. It means agreeing to long deployments, giving up control of your life (even more so than a "normal" job), and taking a different view on the world.

I've seen guys who came in just to build time. They not only usually hated the Air Force, they spread their unhappiness to the others around them.

As hokey as it sounds, the military is more than a job. It's more than an airline training ground. It's a serious commitment to service, to your country, and to things more important than yourself. If you're not up to that, working your way up on the civilian side is a much better way to go.

Slice

6-9 years ago!