Missing the Hiring wave for UPT
 

Greetings everyone,

I’m 24 and a 2nd year regional pilot looking for some advice from the experience on the forums. Last fall, I was selected as the 1st alternate for my local ANG unit and was encouraged to reapply for next year. This is the unit I’m most interested in because it is local and when looking long term, driving to work is the goal for both jobs (I commute right now).

My background consists of a aviation bachelor’s giving me the restricted ATP. I am also half way through a Aviation Management Master’s degree that will be done in the fall. Following that, I should be able to hold captain at my airline in a year from now based on my projected flight time and seniority, which is great.

I strongly desire the comradery and flight training the AF has to offer, as well as the experiences that come with that. Being a part of that history and legacy really appeals to me. However I don’t want my young eyes to be skewed by the realities of the military which I don’t know about, as well as the lifestyle that comes with being a reservist combined with the airlines.

Here is my dilemma: If I was hired the next go around at the local unit, I will upgrade in the airlines soon after. It will then be at least a year to go to OCS, leaving me as a captain at my current job logging PIC with a hopefully competitive application for the majors. However, I don’t wanna dig my own grave as the majors wouldn’t be able to use me until UPT is done essentially if they chose to hire me during that time. I don’t know if majors like that or not.

I just wanna hear your opinions because I know my generation has a golden opportunity to get hired very early than most have never had before. I don’t wanna miss that window by doing something that my not be worth it. As someone young and new to the game, it’s tough to see those next decades and the realities in them.

Thanks for reading and the responses.


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It sounds like your reasons to pursue military aviation and an opportunity to serve in that capacity are the some of the right ones. There's no doubt going that route and doing it properly will probably cost you the opportunity to make your way to a major airline job as soon as possible.

Only you can decide where your priorities truly are.

Many guys will probably get on here are advise you to do whatever it takes to get that major airline line number as soon as possible. But, very often, the ones offering that advice do so after spending 10 to 20 years flying in the military. Now, their 40 to 50 year old self is wishing their seniority was better while forgetting the unique military experiences they had in their 20s and 30s are impossible to quantify.

My point is this: Money, schedule and all the seniority an airline can offer you may be the end all for some. Doing the 121 job for 40 years, point A to point B with vectors to an ILS and hotel room waiting every night may work for some. Personally, I can't imagine doing this job from age 25 to the end.

Many of us did stuff only a small number of pilots ever get a chance to do. The friends I made are men I trusted with my life to and those relationships last a lifetime. The common experiences we shared, the challenges and the mission driven, goal oriented reasons for our daily efforts are impossible to quantify next to the simplistic nature of 121 ops.

So, if you have a shot, I'd highly recommend you take it. I think you'll find whatever sacrifice you make in seniority will end up being worth far more than it costs you.

A lot of "ifs" - you can game all you want and should, but you have no way of knowing either will happen.

That's not all negative I just wanted to point out the reality is make a decision when you have an offer.

Another thing, if you are worried about missing the hiring wave don't be. Just look at the retirements from the big 3 over the next 15 yrs. There will be slots available.

I’ll give you my experience. Wanted to be an airline pilot since I was 17. I ran out of cash for flight training, so I went to UPT with guard heavy unit. After years of deployments and guard bumming I finally landed the dream job I wanted from the beginning. Here is what I learned....

Airline flying has zero substance to it. It is literally boring as hell. Don’t get me wrong, it is a GREAT paycheck and awesome way to pay the bills, BUT THATS IT. Guard Squadron life is the 100% opposite. I fly with my best friends and have an awesome time doing it. The flights I do are fulfilling and enjoyable. I have a vested interest with guys I fly with. You have to deal with military BS occasionally, but it is worth it IMO. I wouldn’t have done it different even if it set me back 3 years seniority.

Here is what you don't know and will never know.

What guarantees you an interview at the major of your choosing after only a year of PIC in your RJ?

What makes you different than any other regional captain with 1000 TPIC?

What networking opportunities will you gain from being in the ANG?

I've seen at least one student with decent quals (mostly King Air PIC) but lots more hours than yours who had his applications out there with the big 3 and UPS while at UPT. It was going to be an interesting conversation with his home unit, the UPT Wing/Squadron leadership, if he had actually gotten called for an interview while in pilot training, but that is a different discussion for another thread.

UPT will make you better, a better person, and a better aviator. It will give you opportunities like nothing else in the world.

You are young. Young enough to possibly get hired at a major and then go to UPT, if not selected by this unit for the next cycle of UPT slots.

Go For It!!! It can only help you.

Most pilots in your position (2 year regional FOs) aren’t getting picked up at tier one majors. The FOs who do get picked up with 0 TPIC time seem to have 4-6 years on property and have played the recruitment game hard to get picked up.

Either upgrade and go on military leave for UPT or go on leave and come back and upgrade. The successful military box check is goin to outweigh the time away from regional flying on your apps.

You want to go to UPT so go. You’re young enough and on the right path to get to the majors and at a place where UPT as an added benefit is going to help you become more competitive.

Keep your apps out until you leave, and update your availability date to the end of UPT/seasoning once you start and keep updating your flight times every 2-4 weeks and hit your apps hard again on the back side when you’ve successfully completed training and are back from mil leave.

Good luck!

I'll echo what most of these guys are saying. The experiences you'll get in the military are priceless and can't be matched anywhere in the civilian world. UPT will make you a better pilot IF you just do it their way. I've seen experienced civilian pilots wash out of Navy Primary because they couldn't break their civilian habits. I've also seen civilian pilots graduate at the top of their class because they've got flying experience.

Looking back at my career there's no doubt that if I was in your shoes I'd go for it.

Go for the guard slot. Come back get PIC time and go to a major. The wave doesn't stop for over a decade and your only 24.

x2. You'll be a better person for it, and have had more fun along the way.

Bust your ass now. Go to UPT. With the combined mil/civ resume you might get hired sooner.

Some of the military flying is awesome. Some is SOSDD.

Thanks everyone for the replies and the support. This is what I needed to hear.


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I'm quite literally in the exact same spot as you. Same age, regional FO, etc. Same thoughts. I submitted my app to the one guard unit that I really wanna go to (didn't apply to any others yet, but I will if I don't get hired by the unit I'm applying to). I hope to god that I get picked because I think this job would be way more fun than any regional flying. I know it's not without commitments, large commitments at that. Good luck man.

Hear! Hear!

A million times agree. Got here the same way.

I like being a airline pilot. It’s a great job and good paycheck. But, I love going to hang out with guys (and gals) in squadron. The AF has a lot of BS, but the experiences I’ve had in the AF far outweigh the airline life. That doesn’t mean I want to do it forever, or full time, but I will never regret doing it.

I wouldnt trade my 7 years flying C-130s for anything... three decades later I still talk with many of my squadron mates.... airline friends.. not so much.

I agree with all the other that say take the UPT slot if you can get it. It sounds like you want to be there for the right reasons and that means you're probably the type of person who will never regret your time in.

The most likely event to cause a global airline slowdown is a national security event that will cause military flying to increase. It is nice to have the option to pick up more military flying if you're furloughed.

Not a reason to join, but if you join the military for the right reasons, you'll want to go where the action is anyhow. Therefore, it is nice to know you have a buffer against a downturn in your civilian job.

When I saw the title of this thread I came here to tell you to stay the hell out and get your seniority number but I've had a crappy day, I'm about to deploy, and I love *****ing about the Air Force. Now that that's out of the way, I'll echo what everyone else has said. I never thought of flying as work until I flew for the airlines. It may be flying for a living, but there is a whole world flying experiences/awesome TDYs out there waiting to be had. My top personal "I can't believe I'm getting to do this" moments as a heavy reservist: 300 AGL through the Carpathian Mountains, 9 ship over the Alps to the largest personnel drop in Europe since D-Day. In between flights you'll drink their wine and meet their women. UPT was the best worst year of my life and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I managed to turn some weird USAFA grads into friends and got paid to take some of the best flight training in the world. The queep blows, would do again 0/10. Hope that helps.

If you want to experience military flying, I’d say go for it. Regardless of airframe and mission, military flying is way more challenging, fun, and fulfilling than any airline flying by a large margin. Having said this, why not try for a fighter unit? I don’t mean to turn this into a fighter vs. heavy thread but if you’re shooting for maximum fun factor, there’s nothing like the tactical jet world. I have many friends who chose to fly heavies and enjoyed the mission but I would never trade my experience flying a pointy nose jet and pulling more Gs than a human body can handle.:) I wish I had known about the ANG in high school before I chose the academy route. Guard/reserves path is more enjoyable than the active route, in my opinion.

Last time I had fun in an airplane it had Marines painted on the side.

You guys were a bit different and tend to operate in the "abnorm" but definitely a hoot to work with.:D