I'm an AF DUI survivor but I'm still paying for that night... I had my pilot wings for about six hours before I almost lost them forever. If you were at Vance about 7 years ago you may remember me!

It was my UPT graduation dinner at the club and the booze was flowing. Even the wing king bought us a keg! After the party I made the worst decision of my life and decided to drive home. The base cop must have watched me walk to my car, because I was quickly pulled over for "not using my turn signal at a yield sign!" After a night in jail wearing my mess dress, and two months of not knowing whether I was going to keep my wings; the AF decided to let me stay. I got smacked pretty hard for the short term, 1/2 month's pay for 2 months plus I got to meet every Colonel on base. Thankfully, the long term aspect wasn't too bad. In fact, the commander of AETC at the time wrote a MFR that ensures the DUI will not be in my promotion folder.

However, that's all for not now! I'm getting out and trying to get picked up by the airlines. That dui still has teeth! It's the worst decision I've ever made and I'll have to answer for it forever.

I haven't gotten so much as a parking ticket since then, but I'm afraid it will be enough to send my application unto the floor.

What do you guys think? Do you know of any airline pilots that have overcome a dui?

PS--get a cab.

I saw a guy get back after a DUI. He fought it out in town (got a good lawyer apprently) and after several months was back flying once the state reduced the charge. He still has to walk around with people knowing exactly what he did, regardless of the outcome on paper. I've never heard of someone in flight training ever getting back in the pipeline after a DUI.

I taught T-37s at Vance from 97-00, I can't say for sure that I remember your incident because in my time I saw several folks get DUIs. All of them survived as you described about yourself. They were all given a chance to dig their way out of the hole (Article 15, driving privileges revoked, check pilot status removed...stuff like that, but nobody lost their wings or their commission). Two guys in particular who were FAIPs with me both got to continue flying. One of them even got picked up as a U-2 pilot within about a year of the DUI and a couple years ago he was hired by Southwest. However, I know for a fact that it was hit on during the interview process for both interviews, so it will never go away like you said.

I can't imagine having to deal with that. It pains me to have to put down all the times I got caught speeding, nevermind a DUI.

As much as I hate to say it, it might not be a bad idea to consult a lawyer about what transgressions during active duty can and cannot be released to a civilian employer. If this DUI was handled entirely as an administrative manner, then there may not be any record of it available to the public. If it was UCMJ, then I'm not sure. Of course, if it's not releasable, make sure you don't list any references who may rat you out. If it is, just do what you did here and tell the story as honestly and openly as you can, make sure to highlight how young you were and the lessons learned from it also. Good luck.

A guy I went to UPT with got his wings yanked at Corpus two weeks after graduation after driving home from another class winging. Of course, he blew through a closed gate and hit a car full of Mexicans, then tried to run. Not good.

If you received an Art 15, you were not convicted of a DUI! If anyone ever asks you if you have had a DUI you should answer no, because you have not. An Art 15 is non-judicial punishment, not an admission of guilt, and is not comparable to a civilian conviction. The military equivalent to a civilian DUI conviction is a courts-martial.

However, I think I remember during my SWA interview that they asked if you have ever had an Art 15. They asked it in between questions about whether you have ever met a FEB or failed any checkrides.

Tarheel is in a weird position. I don't think he should accept the negative stigma of a DUI because he was not afforded the opportunity of due process. Again, an Art 15 is a non-judicial administrative action and the decision maker was probably the Wg/CC and not a judge. There are no rules of evidence or burden of proof. Of course, Miss Perky from SWA HR does not know this.

Lying in an interview is bad! But not getting a job because of someone thinking an Art 15 is the same as a DUI conviction is sucks too. An Art 15 is protected by the Privacy Act meaning it is not included in anything that the USAF could release to someone seeking your records under the Privacy Act. If the Art 15 was not included in your promotion folder, or in an OPR, there is effectively no record of it. AFPC has a copy in your MPRG, but it would be excluded from promotion boards due to the MFR from the AETC/CC. FWIW.

Tarheel--send me a PM when you get enough posts and I'll tell you why I think I know so much. (And no, I've never had a DUI or ART 15)

I've got a bud that has a DUI and is flying for SW. I also have another one that has a misdemeanor hit and run in his record. The first step is never to lie about it. Lying during an interview and getting caught from what I've been told is unforgivable. You were not convicted of a felony and it would appear that you have kept your nose clean so I would think that you actually have a good shot. I think in your case it is very important that you get interview prep before you interview. They will teach you the best way to explain your past mistakes and how you turned these into positive experiences. Good luck and keep the faith.

I had a herk buddy who survived but that was several years ago...dui at little Rock...now he's in the reserves and flying for AA.

A student of mine at Corpus got picked up downtown...spent the night in jail when I picked him up the following day he was bummed out to point that I put him on suicide watch...he got a good lawyer..all charges dropped even though he admits to being dead wrong...he went on to get his wings of gold.


Rare case I know but it has been done.

Back in my Tweet days at CBM (89-93). A FAIP buddy of mine was doing the sympathy no drinking for his pregnant wife...he drank nothing but iced tea all night at the graduation party at the club...pulled over 100 yards after leaving the club...hauled off in the back of the cop car...after he blew a 0.0 they didn't believe him so then at his insitance they drew blood...again a 0.0!! Cop Squadron CC had alot to answer to the wing CC after that one!!

Any interview prep service will tell you to come clean and explain everything. I generally agree with that advice. However, I also believe in the advice of "Never complain and never explain." Keep in mind though that interview prep services do have some limited liability and don't want the headaches of lawsuits. If they advise you to lie about something and you do and get caught, you could have some recourse against the prep service. You may not win, but it would make things miserable for them. As a result interview prep services will always tell you to come clean.

If I was Tarheel and in an airline interview I would not admit to having a DUI, because he doesn't. An Art 15 for DUI is not the same as being convicted of a DUI in a court of law. An Art 15 is a tool used by a CC when there may be enough evidence to convict in a courts-martial, but for whatever reason the CC does not feel a court-martial conviction best serves justice. When asked directly if he has ever had a DUI, he should say "no, but when I was a young Lt I almost got one while in the USAF. Luckily the case was dropped and it was handled administratively and nothing was on my record. I learned a lot from that episode and it was xx years ago." This satisfies the interviewers question while getting Tarheel off the hook.

I can't imagine someone getting hired in the current airline hiring environment that has a DUI. That's why I was always frustrated when I saw USAF pilots get Art 15s for DUI. Given the same circumstances a civilian could lose his ticket and have a DUI on his record, while the mil pilot gets an Art 15 which doesn't mean anything outside of the military. Tarheel was incredibly lucky and should be extremely thankful to his old Wg/CC for getting the AETC/CC to bury it.

[QUOTE=L'il J.Seinfeld;154184] That's why I was always frustrated when I saw USAF pilots get Art 15s for DUI. Given the same circumstances a civilian could lose his ticket and have a DUI on his record, while the mil pilot gets an Art 15 which doesn't mean anything outside of the military. QUOTE]

So what if it gets handled administratively? It's not like the WG/CC is overly concerned with the guy's civilian prospects. Or concerned at all. His focus is on good order and discipline inside the military and he shouldn't care about how it'll play at an airline interview. Same goes for comparing military pilots to civilian pilots. There's no "ticket" for the leadership to worry about. "Sorry, Capt, but since Joe Schmoe at the FBO would lose his ticket for this, I'm taking your wings." Although many DUI cases aren't handled very consistently in the military, most punishments I saw fit the crime. Guys got Art 15's when they deserved them, court-martialed when the DUI offense was especially bad. Either way, I can't say I ever got "frustrated" when I saw another pilot get an Art 15 instead of losing his wings. I was usually thankful that noone got hurt and that the pilot in question had some sort of chance of recovering from the DUI. Why would it bother you one way or the other?

Actually with a really good lawyer a civilian DUI could disappear. Military justice may just follow you for the rest of your life. Who knows I don't claim to be an expert all I know is that if you get caught lying, or being evasive through an interview it would not look good to the interviewer.