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Excargodog 08-10-2020 02:47 PM

CRAF.
 
I hope with all the COVID furlough threat inspired early retirements/displacements of senior personnel and revisions of aircraft fleets that SOMEONE is keeping track of the CRAF airframes and the personnel needed to fly them.

I’m sure that’s SOMEBODY’s job, but...

senecacaptain 08-10-2020 03:12 PM

how many CRAF flights occur at any given time.

We are reportedly downsizing our footprint in Afghan and Germany.

Excargodog 08-10-2020 03:40 PM


Originally Posted by senecacaptain (Post 3108101)
how many CRAF flights occur at any given time.

We are reportedly downsizing our footprint in Afghan and Germany.

None, until they are needed, but then they are needed bad.

Beech Dude 08-10-2020 05:52 PM


Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 3108086)
I hope with all the COVID furlough threat inspired early retirements/displacements of senior personnel and revisions of aircraft fleets that SOMEONE is keeping track of the CRAF airframes and the personnel needed to fly them.

I’m sure that’s SOMEBODY’s job, but...

Great point. I'm sure this is being checked. TRANSCOM's only job is moving stuff. Watched a few briefs a few years back and they were very detailed on the fleet...air and sea...but there is always a chance unfortunately.

rickair7777 08-10-2020 09:31 PM

Yes TRANSCOM does this, they have regular meetings with the CRAF airlines. Probably more regular right now.

If it becomes an issue, DoD can pay them to keep the crews available (or just make it a condition of CARES 2.0)

senecacaptain 08-11-2020 06:57 AM


Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 3108127)
None, until they are needed, but then they are needed bad.

Yes, I understand. I phrased it poorly. Back in 2000's, when we had airlines Ch.11 and furloughs from all majors, yet had Iraq and Afghanistan, did CRAF ever go "unsupported."

If not, why would CRAF suffer today.

in any event, the CRAF members contractually have agreed to "be capable of support" under the CRAF terms, so it is on the airlines to produce a plane and a crew for CRAF missions anyway.

Not arguing but trying to see this from all angles. The more we understand how "they" think (management, Congress, etc) the better prepared we will be to swallow that sh** sandwich that may be coming in a few months (or not).

Appreciate the dialogue so far...

rickair7777 08-11-2020 07:34 AM


Originally Posted by senecacaptain (Post 3108437)
Yes, I understand. I phrased it poorly. Back in 2000's, when we had airlines Ch.11 and furloughs from all majors, yet had Iraq and Afghanistan, did CRAF ever go "unsupported."

If not, why would CRAF suffer today.

in any event, the CRAF members contractually have agreed to "be capable of support" under the CRAF terms, so it is on the airlines to produce a plane and a crew for CRAF missions anyway.

Not arguing but trying to see this from all angles. The more we understand how "they" think (management, Congress, etc) the better prepared we will be to swallow that sh** sandwich that may be coming in a few months (or not).

Appreciate the dialogue so far...

The DoD broadly considers and accounts for all aspects of national infrastructure which would support or impact military operations. They have mechanisms (some of which are legal and vested in the executive branch) to assure the viability of national military infrastructure, including logistics, manufacturing, and raw materials. They are watching and have means to intervene. If the required intervention exceeds their legal/fiscal authority, they will let congress know and presumably THEY will provide the necessary level of intervention.

Excargodog 08-11-2020 07:42 AM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 3108465)
The DoD broadly considers and accounts for all aspects of national infrastructure which would support or impact military operations. They have mechanisms (some of which are legal and vested in the executive branch) to assure the viability of national military infrastructure, including logistics, manufacturing, and raw materials. They are watching and have means to intervene. If the required intervention exceeds their legal/fiscal authority, they will let congress know and presumably THEY will provide the necessary level of intervention.

Yeah, but their last major test of maritime lift didn’t go all that great. I wonder when they last had a similar test of CRAF?

In my experience, hangar queens deteriorate even faster than mothballed ships.

rickair7777 08-11-2020 07:56 AM


Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 3108471)
Yeah, but their last major test of maritime lift didn’t go all that great. I wonder when they last had a similar test of CRAF?

In my experience, hangar queens deteriorate even faster than mothballed ships.

That's true but that's why they do tests. MSC is unusual because it has a large number of MPS ships intentionally mothballed. They outsourced Mx and then didn't supervise it adequately. MSC ships which are actually operational seem to work fine.

MSC probably had issues because of the general distraction away from amphibious operations since 9/11. They are now correcting that with the Pacific pivot (for obvious reasons).

The CRAF fleet is not normally in mothballs.

Excargodog 08-11-2020 08:12 AM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 3108482)

The CRAF fleet is not normally in mothballs.


Yep, but that’s my concern. They aren’t normally hangar queens either but a lot have been for quite awhile now.


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