Marine Corps As Fashion Police
10-20-2007, 06:40 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Walmart Greeter
Posts: 694
Originally Posted by sigtauenus
Or until they get the opportunity to play with us, and witness 8 hours of mission planning and 2 hours of briefing for a 1 hour flight followed by a 2 hour debrief (ie, lessons learned). I think the exact quote was "holy ****, I had no idea you guys actually worked this hard..."
True. I don't buy the "it teaches discipline argument at all" There are countless other methods to this madness then telling Marines not to do something that doesn't make a hill of beans worth of sense just for the sake of doing so. I digress.
10-20-2007, 06:42 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 207
Stone,
I suspect it's ASVAB envy.
BTW, all the Marines I work with wear cammies at work. We work in an office environment. IMHO, they should be wearing "Chucks." When we get out cammies we'll still have to wear our Khaki's in the office. Khaki's provide a more professional image, say the Flags. I'd rather wear cammies in the office because of the comfort.
I'm still laughing at Stone's comment......
I suspect it's ASVAB envy.
BTW, all the Marines I work with wear cammies at work. We work in an office environment. IMHO, they should be wearing "Chucks." When we get out cammies we'll still have to wear our Khaki's in the office. Khaki's provide a more professional image, say the Flags. I'd rather wear cammies in the office because of the comfort.
I'm still laughing at Stone's comment......
10-20-2007, 08:41 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: C152
Posts: 501
Originally Posted by sigtauenus
Or until they get the opportunity to play with us, and witness 8 hours of mission planning and 2 hours of briefing for a 1 hour flight followed by a 2 hour debrief (ie, lessons learned). I think the exact quote was "holy ****, I had no idea you guys actually worked this hard..."
I really did appreciate all the CAS I got while I was over there, and I appreciated the hot food I got every once in awhile, and the ammo, mostly functional vehicles, and letters from home also!
I think a quote from another thread comes in to play here, "Am I down here because you're up there? Or are you up there because I'm down here?"
P.S - I really, truly did appreciate the air support!
10-20-2007, 09:58 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 744 CA
Posts: 4,772
Yea....all the ground guys would give us flyboys crap until they NEED me to slam 70 tons of aircraft down on 3000 feet of dirt strip in the middle of nowhere..
so they can have more stuff to shoot back with .....and eat.....
so they can have more stuff to shoot back with .....and eat.....
10-21-2007, 12:46 AM
#45
China Visa Applicant
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Midfield downwind
Posts: 1,919
The point of my post was that I find it incredible that being able to (or to not) make a stop on your way to/from work in uniform is so crucial to good order and discipline in the USMC that during a time of major deployed combat operations it warrants policy change.
Guess it's one of those "If you're not a Marine you just wouldn't understand" things.
Guess it's one of those "If you're not a Marine you just wouldn't understand" things.
10-21-2007, 04:10 AM
#47
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 51
Originally Posted by sigtauenus
I wear the utilities every day for work, the two times in the past 3 years I wore my charlies was for a promotion picture and a change of command. We did have a CGI a couple months ago and I had to break out the alpha's, first time I wore them since I reported almost 3 years ago.
Technically, since utilities are a "field" uniform, my uniform of the day should be charlies. But, its not. Everybody at my command wears utilities, except the career planner.
So, I change my clothes twice a day. Add in PT during the work day, and its easily 4 or 5 times a day. That's a lot of wasted time. The NEX gas station is more expensive than the Wawa down the street, so I don't use it except when I'm no kidding on empty.
This past weekend my wife drove my truck and left me with less than a quarter tank, and I wore my utilities home on Friday so I wore them on Monday morning. I was swamped at work and forgot about it, then PT'd at the end of the day, and left work right after PT, got in the truck, saw the gas gauge and thought "oh ****." I made it home, but geeze, what a pain in the butt. And my wife wonders why I don't like the cars getting below 1/4 tank.
I really don't have a problem with the new rules except for the part about pumping gas. ATM, food, even dry cleaning you can use the drivethrough. Not too many full service stations around any more. I just really need to hawk the gas gauge now and probably cut my wife off from driving my truck.
Contrary to the article in the original post, in 10 years in the Marines I've never been able to walk in to a fast food joint, or go grocery shopping, or go shopping anywhere. It was my understanding that we could use the drive-through, use an ATM, pump gas, and make stops at daycare or buy necessities such as milk or bread. That's it. I don't have a problem with that.
If Marines were violating those rules they were wrong and their leadership should have taken care of it.
There is a rational application of this. The whole issue comes down to discipline. You tell a Marine to do this or that, regardless if it makes sense or not, because it instills discpline. While today he may ***** about not being able to stop for gas in his uniform, tomorrow you may need to tell him to take a machine gun nest, and just as much as he learns some discipline from it, you also learn who you can count on by how much they obey the rules that don't make any sense.
Technically, since utilities are a "field" uniform, my uniform of the day should be charlies. But, its not. Everybody at my command wears utilities, except the career planner.
So, I change my clothes twice a day. Add in PT during the work day, and its easily 4 or 5 times a day. That's a lot of wasted time. The NEX gas station is more expensive than the Wawa down the street, so I don't use it except when I'm no kidding on empty.
This past weekend my wife drove my truck and left me with less than a quarter tank, and I wore my utilities home on Friday so I wore them on Monday morning. I was swamped at work and forgot about it, then PT'd at the end of the day, and left work right after PT, got in the truck, saw the gas gauge and thought "oh ****." I made it home, but geeze, what a pain in the butt. And my wife wonders why I don't like the cars getting below 1/4 tank.
I really don't have a problem with the new rules except for the part about pumping gas. ATM, food, even dry cleaning you can use the drivethrough. Not too many full service stations around any more. I just really need to hawk the gas gauge now and probably cut my wife off from driving my truck.
Contrary to the article in the original post, in 10 years in the Marines I've never been able to walk in to a fast food joint, or go grocery shopping, or go shopping anywhere. It was my understanding that we could use the drive-through, use an ATM, pump gas, and make stops at daycare or buy necessities such as milk or bread. That's it. I don't have a problem with that.
If Marines were violating those rules they were wrong and their leadership should have taken care of it.
There is a rational application of this. The whole issue comes down to discipline. You tell a Marine to do this or that, regardless if it makes sense or not, because it instills discpline. While today he may ***** about not being able to stop for gas in his uniform, tomorrow you may need to tell him to take a machine gun nest, and just as much as he learns some discipline from it, you also learn who you can count on by how much they obey the rules that don't make any sense.
When I was flying smokejumpers out of Ft. Wainwright, AK this summer, there were always soldiers in the local Fred Meyer's in cammies. I don't know if it was of the instilling of the policy from the Marines, but I thought that it looked un-professional. The place looked like a PX. I was actually surprised to see a very pregnant female soldier wearing cammies. Do they actually make those in maternity sizes?
As far as the wear of charlies or anything else, it was impractical in the 03's as most of our time that wasn't in the field was preparing for the field, ie cleaning weapons, gear, training, etc. Pretty much any other uniform was reserved for inspections. I never once wore my wool alpha's after the tailor shop!
I think that your last paragraph, the last sentence really, hits the nail on the head, Sig.
Stonefly
Edit: Ha ha! The board automatically censors expressions? I thought I was being good Saying "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot" at the beginning of my post, and when I hit submit it put up three asterisks.
10-21-2007, 05:28 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 836
Originally Posted by Spartan07
To us a Marine in cammies off base would probably be the same as a soldier walking around in a flak and kevlar. It makes as much sense to me to wear cammies off base as it does to you to be prohibited from it.
I think wearing the uniform off post is a fantastic recruiting and political tool. If the Marines want their dress uniforms to serve that recruiting and political purpose, then so be it. They can tell their Marines to change out of their combat uniforms and I'll tell my Soldiers to take their IBA and ACH off and put their baret back on before they head to the Shell Station or Larrys BBQ for lunch.
By the way, I visited a buddy of mine in Ocean Side a year ago. Former Marine enliste, former Army Hawk driver, current Marine UH1 driver. He told me about the off duty civilian clothes restrictions and I like (most) of it. When I know someone is a soldier and they are walking around on the weekends looking like some thug from the ghetto or trailer trash then it drags my pride in the service down a notch and I can only imagine what negative impression the local civilians get branded into their brain.
10-21-2007, 06:58 AM
#50
Smells like teen spirit
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Mil and Civ
Posts: 216
Originally Posted by Stonefly
It has everything to do with good order and discipline, and nothing at all to do with morale. It is about the image that the service, the Corps in this case, wishes to project. The rationale when I was on active duty was that cammies are a field uniform, not a uniform to project the Marine Corps image out in public. Is this rational? Does it matter if it is rational or not? Does the fact that there are men and women in harms way in Iraq and Afghanistan (and who knows where else) mean that the services should turn a blind eye to the good order and discipline of the service men and women who are not so deployed? How does not allowing Marines Stateside to wear cammies in public effect those Marines involved in combat operations? The Commandant of the Marine Corps is Commandant to all Marines, not only the ones in combat (although I am sure that they are first in his thoughts).
Just my two cents.
Stonefly
Add/Edit: Perhaps you can enlighten me as to what the intent of Hacker's post was.
Just my two cents.
Stonefly
Add/Edit: Perhaps you can enlighten me as to what the intent of Hacker's post was.
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