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Old 11-01-2007, 07:59 PM   #1  
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Default CAL and mil leave

Iíve been searching the boards for a bit but canít seem to find the answer. At CAL I know you get a CBA mandated 12 days off a month/bid period, but if you drop a trip or two for mil leave does that 12 days go up or down?

The reason I ask is at my unit long range planning is only two weeks and most flight schedules are built only 7-10 days out so it would be difficult to fully identify what days I need off the month before so it could be part of a BPS bid.

thanks
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Old 11-09-2007, 09:47 AM   #2  
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Originally Posted by nanook7 View Post
Iíve been searching the boards for a bit but canít seem to find the answer. At CAL I know you get a CBA mandated 12 days off a month/bid period, but if you drop a trip or two for mil leave does that 12 days go up or down?

The reason I ask is at my unit long range planning is only two weeks and most flight schedules are built only 7-10 days out so it would be difficult to fully identify what days I need off the month before so it could be part of a BPS bid.

thanks
Just let CAL know when you plan on drilling and let them work around that schedule and not the way you are doing it (unless of course it would cost you lots of $$
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Old 11-10-2007, 05:37 AM   #3  
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I’ve been searching the boards for a bit but can’t seem to find the answer. At CAL I know you get a CBA mandated 12 days off a month/bid period, but if you drop a trip or two for mil leave does that 12 days go up or down?

The reason I ask is at my unit long range planning is only two weeks and most flight schedules are built only 7-10 days out so it would be difficult to fully identify what days I need off the month before so it could be part of a BPS bid.

thanks
You are required to give them as much notice as you CAN. I.E. 7-10 days out sounds like as much as you can. If you give it to them early they will drop your days off down. You can pick days later and recoup the pay. This is for a guy on reserve. If you are a line holder, they will build a schedule around your mil leave.
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Old 11-10-2007, 06:22 AM   #4  
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From what I heard you need to be careful with CAL, guy in my unit made it without taking mil leave. Apparantly it is highly frowned upon and they fired someone for it. Obviously the Gov pounded them and the individual was hired back on with orig date of hire. Good luck
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Old 11-10-2007, 10:53 AM   #5  
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From what I heard you need to be careful with CAL, guy in my unit made it without taking mil leave. Apparantly it is highly frowned upon and they fired someone for it. Obviously the Gov pounded them and the individual was hired back on with orig date of hire. Good luck

Don't know about this incident. We have gotten to the point at CAL where we (pilots) are not going to take any bull**** when it comes to the service to our country. Mostly the CP calling when you turn it in after the 10th of the month. PBS has to know planned absences to build a proper schedule. Guess what, not our problem. We give as much notice as we can and try to accomodate both CAL and our units. We are on the verge of handing the company a big ole glass of shut the fouck up!!
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Old 11-10-2007, 12:27 PM   #6  
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Had a CAL guy in my squadron get some off the record crap from his CP. He took 2 months of orders in his probie year. Min ran the guard after that and now is on full-time leave as the squadron(post probation). UPS has been pretty good about it so far.
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Old 11-10-2007, 02:04 PM   #7  
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Had a CAL guy in my squadron get some off the record crap from his CP. He took 2 months of orders in his probie year. Min ran the guard after that and now is on full-time leave as the squadron(post probation). UPS has been pretty good about it so far.
That's exactly it Slice. That is the story for just about everyone. Including me. I just politely say please call my CC if you have any questions. Have a nice day. Goodbye. They think they can intimidate guys on probation. What a bad thing to do in an environment where you most guys would bend over backwards if you treated them right. Sounds like Active Duty huh?!!
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Old 11-12-2007, 08:36 AM   #8  
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That's exactly it Slice. That is the story for just about everyone. Including me. I just politely say please call my CC if you have any questions. Have a nice day. Goodbye. They think they can intimidate guys on probation. What a bad thing to do in an environment where you most guys would bend over backwards if you treated them right. Sounds like Active Duty huh?!!
I'm a new hire at CAL, and a future reservist. Let's just say that during my interview, the Reserves subject came up, and it was very clear to me that my expectation was to fulfill 100% of my Reserve commitment during my 12 days off. You will not get extra days off for the Reserves.

I don't work there yet and I don't know how PBS works, so I can't tell you what is considered reasonable as far as dropping mil leave.

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Old 11-12-2007, 09:58 AM   #9  
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I'm a new hire at CAL, and a future reservist.... it was very clear to me that my expectation was to fulfill 100% of my Reserve commitment during my 12 days off. You will not get extra days off for the Reserves.
The law says different and they know it. USERRA protects your ability to take leave from work...not your ability to work on your days off.
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Old 11-13-2007, 08:22 PM   #10  
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Originally Posted by nanook7 View Post
I’ve been searching the boards for a bit but can’t seem to find the answer. At CAL I know you get a CBA mandated 12 days off a month/bid period, but if you drop a trip or two for mil leave does that 12 days go up or down?

The reason I ask is at my unit long range planning is only two weeks and most flight schedules are built only 7-10 days out so it would be difficult to fully identify what days I need off the month before so it could be part of a BPS bid.

thanks
All,
Have extensive experience working with an employer and the Uniformed Services Employment and Remployment Rights Act (USERRA). The Department of Labor (DOL) administers the law through their Veterans Employment & Training Service (VETS) whose job is designed to
" provide veterans and transitioning service members with the resources and services to succeed in the 21st century workforce by maximizing their employment opportunities, protecting their employment rights and meeting labor-market demands with qualified veterans today." They also handle complaints of all of us employees.



Airlines are notorius for their ignorance of the law. We are working hard where I am working to work through the challenges such as this one. Different company, same USERRA Law.
Here is the most important clause, it is the section that makes sure all of us knotheads will still serve Uncle Sam. Since we are all volunteers, Sam needs to give us cover to keep a civilian job. Just like the VETS mission statement <g>


ß 4311. Discrimination against persons who serve in the uniformed services and acts of reprisal prohibited (a) A person who is a member of, applies to be a member of, performs, has performed, applies to perform, or has an obligation to perform service in a uniformed service shall not be denied initial employment, reemployment, retention in employment, promotion, or any benefit of employment by an employer on the basis of that membership, application for membership, performance of service, application for service, or obligation. (b) An employer may not discriminate in employment against or take any adverse employment action against any person because such person (1) has taken an action to enforce a protection afforded any person under this chapter, (2) has testified or otherwise made a statement in or in connection with any proceeding under this chapter, (3) has assisted or otherwise participated in an investigation under this chapter, or (4) has exercised a right provided for in this chapter. The prohibition in this subsection shall apply with respect to a person regardless of whether that person has performed service in the uniformed services. (c) An employer shall be considered to have engaged in actions prohibited— (1) under subsection (a), if the person’s membership, application for membership, service, application for service, or obligation for service in the uniformed services is a motivating factor in the employer’s action, unless the employer can prove that the action would have been taken in the absence of such membership, application for membership, service, application for service, or obligation for service;
Title 38, United States Code, Chapter 43 – Employment and Reemployment Rights of Members of the Uniformed Services"

We all need to get more familiar. Here are some websites

Look at: http://www.dol.gov/vets/

also, the Employer Support of the Guard and Reserve (ESGR) is a DOD program to help employers administer USERRA, They are a fantastic resource and talk with them almost daily, (what a goofy existence <g> ) helping my fellow buds out.
Their website is : www.esgr.org
For a great quick read useful on this topic brought up here, Click the "About ESGR" Icon on the top left, the click on "USERRA FAQ" in the right hand column.

One of your future best sites is from the Reserve Officer Association (ROA) where Navy Capt Samuel F. Wright JAG (Lawyer) who was one of the authors of the USERRA Law in 1994 gives opinions on the gray areas etc.

http://www.roa.org/site/PageServer?p...yk9yog33.app7b
if the link is bad I'll try to get back and fix it, but go to
www.roa.org. Click on “Legislative Affairs” then “ROA Law Reviews.

Nanook,
It is illegal for any employer to require an employee to work on days off to make up for military. USERRA came out in 1994, it left alot of questions and problems of interpretation, so the DOL came out with "The Final Rules" in December of 2005. It is found at:

http://www.dol.gov/vets/regs/fedreg/...2005023961.htm

It is like a very detailed FAQ and very useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddler View Post
I'm a new hire at CAL, and a future reservist. Let's just say that during my interview, the Reserves subject came up, and it was very clear to me that my expectation was to fulfill 100% of my Reserve commitment during my 12 days off. You will not get extra days off for the Reserves.

I don't work there yet and I don't know how PBS works, so I can't tell you what is considered reasonable as far as dropping mil leave.

Riddler
Riddler,
That is blatantly illegal. I don't have time right now to post all the stautes, but it is summed up in the discrimination clause 4311 posted above.
You are completely protected if your military service is honorable. Example, you will be protected for pay and benefits of your new hire classmates even if you are gone your first year. An employer can extend your "probation" for observation purposes, but USERRA protects you to receive second year pay etc upon your return. Same with pension and medical/health benefits

The Uniformed Services Employment and Remployment Rights Act (USERRA) is very informative. Sadly, many airline HR's and scheduling depts , CP's are ignorant or misunderstand what the statutes really say. My desire is to help my fellow mil bubs be informed so they can be a productive "shared employee" and be successful in both careers.
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