Hey ya'll I know this topic has been discussed many times before, but with the recent changes happening in the Combat Air Force I was wondering if anyone (especially current Active Duty guys/UPT IP's) had a different outlook on what's going to happen to today's fighter pilot.

First off a little bit about myself...

I just graduated college 8 months ago, commissioned through ROTC, and I am about to start UPT in a couple of weeks. I know everyone at the beginning of UPT says this, but it has always been my dream to be a fighter pilot. At the same time I've always wanted to eventually become an airline pilot. Before all the military guys jump on me for talking about the airlines so early in my military career let me make it clear that being the best officer and military pilot I can be right now is my number ONE priority. I could have easily gotten a job with the regionals out of college like many of my civilian friends did, but I didn't because I wanted to serve my country and be an Air Force Officer and Pilot more than anything.

Honestly I have no idea whether I am going to do 10 or 20 years. You really can't answer that question this early on. After talking to the higher ups it sounds like after your first 2 MWS Tours and your White Jet Tour you are probably going to get a staff job. To be honest I'm probably leaning more towards getting out at 10 if that is the case. I want to serve my country the best I can and be the best leader I can be, but I really have no desire to make rank and play the active duty political game that I keep hearing about.

Anyways like I said it has always been my dream to be a fighter pilot and if I do well enough in Phase I and II to be eligible for 38's I'd like to know if I should take that opportunity or not. You see with all this talk of taking fighter pilots out of the cockpit, sending them to UAV's and PC-12's, TAMI-21, and how today's fighter pilot will be lucky to get 1000 hours in a 20 year career I'm really starting to rethink whether 38's are a good route to take if you would like to have a career in aviation beyond the Air Force.

Everyone has always told me to follow my dreams and that you only have one shot at being a fighter pilot, but at the same time I'd still be MORE THAN HAPPY flying C-17's, KC-10's, KC-135's, C-130's, etc. I'm not that stud that would be totally devastated if I didn't get a 38. Yeah I'll always wonder what it would have been like, but it would never bother me and I'd be the best cargo/tanker pilot I could be.

Ultimately the best case scenario would be to fly fighters for 10 years, go guard/reserves, and then get picked up by the airlines which up until now sounded like a pretty common scenario. After reading a good deal of threads on this forum it sounds like many of you all have taken that route. Unfortunately it almost seems like that scenario is a thing of the past.

If that crystal ball told me that if I went fighters I would barely fly and would not be able to pursue a career in the airlines at the 10 or 20 year mark then I would most certainly put T-1's at the top of my list. Being a fighter pilot sounds great, but that only makes up 10 to 20 years of the typical 40 year pilot career. You still have a good 20-30 years of flying left in the civilian world after you do get out of the military so I don't know if it is worth it to fly a pointy jet if that's going to jeapordize those 20-30 years of civilian flying.

Anyways I'm hoping some of you retired guys, active duty guys, and IP's might be able to use your crystal ball and give me your honest opinion on what you think is going to happen to today's fighter pilot...

...Is today's fighter pilot really going to be taken out of the cockpit as much as everyone is talking about?

or

...Is all of this just a bunch of hype that will eventually phase out and things will go back to the way they used to be(basically just ride the wave)?


Well I appreciate any advice you all can give to a young LT trying to make up his mind about something that ultimately in the end will be decided by his IP's anyways.

Thanks!

 

No one can predict the future but UCAVs and the chances of getting one are becoming greater. Only you can decide if it's worth the risk. Either way, whether you decide to go fast or slow, I'd keep your airline aspirations to yourself in UPT and RTU.

 

I hear ya. I know you never pass up an opportunity to ****, but I don't understand why if someone asks you if you would like to eventually fly airlines one day why you can't say yes. I think that's BS. I don't see anything wrong with wanting to fly airlines when you get out of the military. Let's face it if you joined the military as a stepping stone to the airlines then you made a big mistake because there are A LOT of easier ways to get to the airlines. I'm pretty sure most of us joined because we want to serve our country and be a military pilot. Airlines/corporate/or any aviation career after the military is just icing on the cake in my opinion.

I really just don't understand why airline talk is such a taboo topic early on in your career. Now I'm not saying you should go around adverstising your dreams of becoming an airline pilot, but I really don't understand if someone asks you do you want to eventually be an airline pilot why you can't answer that honestly?

Regardless I appreciate the advice. Like I said I definitely agree it's something that you shouldn't advertise, but at the same time I wish you could talk to the IP's who may also want to eventually fly airlines one day and see how they feel is the best way to prepare for that while still making the military your number one priority. I've always been told to seek out IP's for their mentorship during UPT and it seems like they could be a great wealth of knowledge concercing airframe selection and career progression.

Anyways again thanks for the advice and I guess you just have to determine if the risk of being taken out of the cockpit for good is worth having the opportunity to fly the pointy jets and see combat action.

 

You seem to be focusing a lot on the fact that fighter pilots have to do staff jobs, etc. at some point...so do heavy dudes, so that should be irrelevant to you if you are trying to compare communities. Generally, when you make major, you'll have to a staff job and maybe PME in residence. Some dudes skate out of that, but not many. Also, not sure who told you you'd never get more than 1000 hours in a fighter in 20 years, but they are feeding you a line of BS propaganda. It is true that you won't get as many hours as you might have "back in the day," though. If you pick up a UPT IP gig somewhere in your first 3 assignments you'll generally get a ton of hours there. I got out at the 12 year point with 1100 fighter hours (2 tours) and 1100 UPT IP hours...way plenty to get a job. Hours will be a non-issue for you, assuming you stay in the cockpit.

Here's what I recommend:
1. you are a long way from getting out, so just put your airline goal in the back of your mind somewhere. You may or may not decide you want to do that in 2019 or whenever you finish your commitment. For all you know, they won't be hiring when you want to get out. As Slice said, definitely don't let the word "airlines" leave your cakehole at UPT. And the absolute LAST thing on your mind on assignment night should be what is best for the airlines. If it is, you're going to hate military flying.

2. you are also a long way from making this decision. Don't try to make up your mind now. Go to UPT, kick @ss, and see how you like different kinds of flying. There's some dudes who "always wanted a fighter" who end up hating going upside down and flying aggressively. There's some dudes who, once they fly formation for the first time, could give a crap if they ever fly straight and level again. No matter what you think right now, you could change your mind in the middle of T-6s.

3. don't worry about UAVs. there's a lot of dudes spreading doom and gloom on this site about UAVs and most of it is alarmist/un-informed. True, some dudes are getting that assignment and those numbers are increasing, but the VAST MAJORITY of dudes will never go. If you are scared of being one of the maybe 5% of dudes to get shacked with that, then don't bother going to UPT. Same reason you shouldn't scared off by the fact that some people get helicopters when they don't want them. Oh by the way, it's a fast changing ballgame. There's nothing to say that heavy dudes won't be getting shacked with UAVs in a couple years either. Either way, no one knows what will happen, so don't make your decision based on fear.

4. THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO is to work your @ss off in UPT, realize that every day, every grade, every maneuver counts, and make it your goal to be in position to get whatever you want on assignment night...whether that be fighters, bombers, FAIP, heavies, or helicopters. That can be more difficult than it sounds. I assure you, you'll much rather have your choice than get stuck with what's left.

 

Dude, the reason you don't talk about it is because it's ELEVEN YEARS OFF when you are in UPT. What are you, 22? That's half of your age away! If you are thinking that far down the road, then you aren't dealing with the closest alligator to the canoe, and that's UPT. It's like LTs who talk about being wing commanders and generals. Be a good LT first. If you are talking about something that is so far off to you right now, dudes think that you ARE doing the stepping stone act and looking past where you should be.

If someone asks you if you want to go to the airlines, say "maybe" because THAT'S TRUE, or at least it should be. You don't know how you'll feel that far away. And don't bother talking to your IPs for airline career advice. Dude, they don't know anything about what to do, unless they are part time reservists who fly for the airlines. If you want to know what to do career wise, do this: be the best USAF pilot you can. You'll get the hours, no problem. There are no career moves (except maybe taking a UPT IP job, to get lots of IP hours) that are magic for the airlines.

 

Wow. First off I appreciate you taking the time to write up a post like that. That sounds like a ton of great advice.

Ultimately I've told myself I just want to do the best I can, help the rest of my flight get through, and have the most fun possible at UPT and like you said hopefully be in a postion where I get to make the decision on what I'm going to fly.

Aside from that like you said I'll just have to wait until I get through T-6's to decide if fighters are even right for me.

Being that it sounds like you've got a ton of good advice to share what is your feeling about the fighter pilot mold? I'm not talking about the cocky, on the edge, competitive mold that people think all fighter pilots have to fit because I've heard most of the time that's not even the case.

I'm talking about fitting the mold in regards to family life, how much time you spend with your bros, etc. I've always heard that if you want a family life go heavies because in a fighter squadron you will be pressured into putting the squadron first. Do you think that's true or is it just something heavy guys say?

I definitely consider myself the type of person that likes to party a lot and spend a lot of time with my buddies, but I just recently got married and things are definitely starting to slow down. I'm not saying it would factor into what airframe I would choose(if the choice was even up to me), but I'm just curious is the idea that your family comes second a myth or is there some truth to that statement?

Thanks again for the advice though. I'm on casual status right now so I've got A TON of time on my hands to think about this stuff and try and get a general idea of what route I would like to take. I know once UPT starts the only thing I'll be thinking about is surviving so I figure I might as well use this time wisely.

 

I gotcha. Point well taken.

 

Sounds like you already made up your mind... if given the opportunity go Fighters... if you choose heavies you will always wonder if it was right decision... worst case you fly heavies when you get out and go airlines.... that is what I did. Airlines like fighter/instructor time... so win/win either way. Don't get bogged down with what is happening now with overages in fighter cockpits... it will be a whole different ball game by the time you get out into the real AF.

 

Fly6584,

You brought up a point of family life and being married in today's air force. I can't speak for the fighter community, but from the heavy side of the house it is not currently an easy lifestyle with a family. Depending on the MWS, you will deploy often. You will be gone on trips frequently in-between deployments. You will upgrade multiple times which require lengthy TDY's (depending on MWS). Airlift assest have been utilized at historic levels for the past 7 years and as long as the ground component footprint remains the same this will continue. That being said, the whole heavy paradigm may change by the time you're done with UPT. For that matter, the fighter paradigm may change between now and then. These matters are all out of your hands. Sometimes you bet on black and red and the number comes up green.

I think irregardless of which side of the coin you land on it's important to sit down with the wife and tell her that A) You're a military pilot B) You'll be gone, maybe a lot. Life will be an adventure for the next 10 years.

As a parting thought, it's great you are gathering some solid corporate knowledge on which to base your decisions on. Just be sure to quantify the source, check the expiration date and be able to see through some seriously jaded filters. TBone is dead on with his advice to go out there and be the heat. Don't let your IP's choose your fate, put yourself in charge of the future.

 

Agreed. I was hired straight into the reserves. Looked for an A-10 for months after I was hired. No luck anywhere. Everybody full up or committed. Ended up finding the bomber. Still would love fly a hog or E-model. Take the fast mover. You can always go heavies later. Hard to get a fighter unit to accept a heavy guy. No matter UPT, flying skills, etc. BTW, just talked to an AD CP at KBAD. Sent him to UAV's for 3 years. Happening to everybody.