Ya doesn't make me feel great that they are not hiring, but it might actually work out in my favor since I can't get out until April '09. That puts my application at southwest around Oct - Nov of '08 all the way until April '09, I just hope I can catch a hiring window in there. I am actually worried that they will start hiring again before Oct when I will be more than 6 months out and can't have my application considered.

As for the cost of Higher Power, since I have the GI bill to use I will end up paying just over 4k, I figure that isn't that bad for quality training...we'll see.

Don't know when we'll start hiring again, but we still will. SWA just deferred a/c, they didn't cancel it.

You can also throw in your app upto a year before you separated. When the hiring window opens, you definitely want to already be competitive and not playing catchup.

Pilot recommendation letters
 

Anyone know where I can get a sample recommendations letter? I have been trying to search for one online, but have not been able to find one so far. Any ideas?

Letsfly--
My experience with SWA: I never had a sample letter. My Southwest buds just knew what to do. What I did do, however, was get a Southwest pilot and former SQ/CC copies of the OPRs he wrote on me. Another Southwest pilot gave me two checkrides in the viper--so I got him copies of the checkride forms he wrote on me. I think your best bet is to get in touch with guys that you have flown with at the airlines that you are targeting.

Any questions, PM me.

Bernie

Dude, I am almost identical to you. C-17, 3300 total etc... I start with CAL on April 22nd. It was liberating to drop my papers to say the least. Good luck with whatever you do, but remember to give the AF 6 months notice or you will be screwed. BTW, I was at TCM now WRI. Good times. I have sample letters I just used for my interview, I can email them to you if you would like. Let me know.

Dannolars,

Man that would be great if you could email a couple samples of recommendation letters to [email protected]. I really appreciate it!

I was at CHS now SUU, and like I said I am really getting excited about getting out. I realized it isn't an easy road at first, but I have to say its all I can think about. I really hope that I won't struggle to get a job, but I think at least I can get a reserve job somewhere. Did you get a reserve job?

Good luck at CAL, a buddy I know there loves it.

Thanks again in advance for the letters.

Apply to EACH and EVERY airline that you would like to fly for. You have good numbers but you might not get hired by everyone you apply with.

Also get a good physical before you leave the military to find out if any thing is possibly out of wack. Color blindness, heart murmors, etc, etc. Have all these things documented as your OK to fly for an airline and that yu can pass there physical. Good Luck.

Letsfly,

I just got out of the Air Force in September (C-9s and C-130s) and have recently gone through just what you've been talking about...getting a type/ATP, researching companies, sending out apps, etc.

I got hired by Air Transport International (ATI) in Dec and just finished my DC-8 PC. I'm really looking forward to the varied schedule...flying freight out of Toledo or flying int'l ad hoc trips or even AMC charters. Plus, I'm home based so they buy an airline ticket to get me to work. I can also sit reserve at home.

I didn't intend for this to sound like a recruiting message, but just wanted to make the point that you have many options available to you. Don't limit yourself to only a few companies.

I may have missed it, but did anyone post anything about Netjets. I've been there for almost 3 years and the pay, QOL, and stability is great. You currently need to apply 6-9 months out. It gives you another option to look at, at least. Good luck!

F16 Driver,

Wow, what are the negatives to Net Jets? I took a quick look at the website and it looks awesome. It said over 100 locations, how do you find out where they are based out of?

You can get the info from their website or do a search of the forum. It is a safe bet that there is a NetJets domocile somewhere close to your home.

Good luck with everything. I cant wait to be in your position.

The only negative for me is when I have to airline to/from home on the first and last days of my tour. I hate the crappy terminals, delayed flights, crowds, etc. There are numerous threads in the fractional forum that will address all your questions. As for the payscale, it is your base pay. It doesn't include overtime (approx. 15% on top of base), tips and per diem (we use our per diem maybe once on a trip, all of our food is catered), health and dental is paid by the company for you and a significant other, and a 401K that is 5O% matching. I'm sure I'm missing other things. I'm also on the busiest fleet there and I maybe fly 40 hrs a month.

The company also doesn't mind if you use your type rating to do contract flying with a company on the outside.

NJ is currently at 2800 pilots, hiring 4OO-500 pilots a year (for the next 2 years. They want to be at 5000 pilots. We are owned by Berkshire Hathaway and have 75% of the fractional market. We also have the best contract and pay in the fractional industry.

Again, just trying to help a brother out. A lot of guys in my guard unit would like to work there but don't have the flight time. That 2500 total time is a pain in the ass for a lot of fighter guys to get. Since you have it, it gives you another option.

So...I know this is a question I am going to have to answer for myself, but I would like to poll some of you guys currently with a commercial airline company. The question:

Give the current situation with a slow down in hiring, stability and fuel prices going through the roof...would you leave active duty for the commercial world right now?

It's a gamble and even in good times it is never a guarantee but I wanted to see what most people thought, especially people in the industry with a clear view of what is going on. Thanks in advance.

Depends on where you go. Fractionals and cargo are relatively unaffected by what is going on. Pax airlines on the other hand are pretty volatile. It's hard to say. Like you said, it's a gamble.

Best thing would be to try and get a guard or reserve gig so you at least have the military to fall back on, without the commitments of AD. Trust me, there are times it is nice to have one or the other as a backup. Just my .02.

Depends... if you are up for the bonus then I would probably punch and get into an ANG/RES unit and apply to all the airlines you can and hold tight. If you are up in years (14 years+) then I would hang out and get the retirement.

I think it will be a year/two for the industry to settle out.

I would not leave AD now, unless my family hardship situation was so bad that I would be willing to work in a non-flying/non-aviation civilian job.

I'd hang out for a couple more years and see what the industry looks like. If you get close to 15 years, think hard about staying for 20.

Thanks for your responses so far guys, just to repost for other people to answer and to clarify my position a little for the guys who have already responded:

Question: For guys already working in the civilian airline industry - given the current conditions of hiring, fuel and stability - would you stay in the military right now or get out?

My set up: 14 months left on active duty and a reserve job almost guaranteed the day after I get out.

I think it all depends on the level of risk you are willing to take as well as your current qualifications -- lots of TT, PIC, IP/EP, etc and you are gonna be very competitive. Also, keep in mind that seniority is everything, so the sooner you get on someplace, the better in terms of seniority. For example, I know several people who went to NetJets a couple years ago and because of the way the contract was written at the time, were able to upgrade within months of being hired. Now everyone going there is going to wait years to upgrade. It's all a matter of timing and again the level of risk you are willing to accept.

The batteries in my crystal ball have died again :), but my feeling is that the current situation is going to end up being a hiccup in the big picture. Ever with the age 65 rule, there are still going to be a lot of retirements over the next decade, so even with slight reductions in domestic capacity (but increases in international capacity), the airlines are still going to need pilots to maintain staffing levels. Hiring may slow down in the short term and maybe not as many people will be hired this year as predicted, but looking at the overall numbers, additional pilots are still going to be needed sooner than later.

Despite every terrible thing that came out of 9/11, it forced the airlines to become more lean and mean in their operations and finally got rid of the pre-deregulation days mentality in which bloat was acceptable. So I think the airlines of today are much better equipped to respond to down turns without resorting to the dreaded "F" word.

My predictions are about as worthless as anyone else's. However, since we're all nuts to be in this crazy industry anyways, instead of being miserable about everything, I say have fun and enjoy the ride! :cool:

Most of what I said above applies, but with 14 months left, I guarantee it will be a whole different landscape when you separate -- and that's about the only thing I can guarantee in civil aviation! :cool: Your reserve job is going to be a huge safety net. If things get really bad, you can take military leave from your airline employer. I think you are probably looking good and sounds like you are making some good plans. :)