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Military Pilot needs help!
My first thread and it will be obvious.
My background is I am a C-17 guy with 3000 total, 1300 PIC and I have 14 months until I can get out of the AF. I have taken my ATP written and will probably take my FE written next week. I basically have a ton of questions about how and where to start my new life. Below are the questions I have, if you guys have time to take a look and answer a few I would be grateful. 1. Southwest seems like such a great place to go (assuming they are hiring) but all my friends at other airlines say that the up and down sorties and quantity of sorties will kill me. Any Southwest guys have anything to say about that? 2. What is a typical day at FedEx or UPS (assuming they are hiring) like? I know it isn't all night flying, but can anyone give me an example of a typical day? Is there such a thing? 3. For the cargo guys, do you spend a lot of time sitting overseas? Reserve? 4. For Fedex, where the hell is Subic Bay? Do all the new guys get stuck there? 5. For any airline/cargo where do your new guys get stuck? How long does it take to be able to hold somewhere else, where would that be? 6. Are the guaranteed minimums on airlinepilotcentral.com accurate for hours? Is the pay accurate? 7. For any ex-military guys, was there anything that surprised you or that you didn't think about as you made the switch? 8. This might be obvious, but if I live at my domicile is there a chance some trips end up back there so I get an extra night at home during a trip? I guess that is enough for now, I don't want to overload the thread. Any help you guys can give me would be appreciated, please add comments or questions of things you think I should be thinking about if I didn't list it. |
Lots of questions so few answers.
Fedex: Nobody gets stuck in subic, it is closing. You could get stuck in Hong Kong. Bad deal ecause your QOL will suck and you will lose money. Assuming you got hired in Memhis, you would probably spend the first 2-3 years sitting reserve in Memphis 15 out of 28 days a month. You would probably fly about half of them. Good deal if you live in Memphis Ok deal if you don't. At the 3-5 year range you could choose money or schedule. Not a lot of info because everything changes. I commute but have averaged about 21 out of 28 days at home for the last 5 years. It probably cost me about 35K a year to do it. Apply every where you want to work. You will be envied by about 95% of your buds if you get on with Fedex, UPS or Southwest. The other 5% are lying. But that is this year. Search this forum you will see lots of opinions on lifestyles. |
letsfly,
Welcome to APC Forums! I'm not going to answer directly, but did you try using the Google search feature? It's located on the upper left side of the page. Most of your questions have been asked and answered many times before. Try it. You'll have plenty to read for a very long time. :) |
Talk to a C17 reservist - they know all this stuff an how it relates to your experience - your time is good for delta or SWA based on guys getting hired to those companies that I know - seems like UPS is picking up 5000 hour types - Good Luck
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You will be envied by about 95% of your buds if you get on with Fedex, UPS or Southwest. The other 5% are lying. I had a pretty good shot at UPS and chose not to pursue it....and I have never looked back in regret. I know a ton UPS dudes and some struggle to get through a tour....and most look older than they are. I also spent a lot of time JS'ing with them...there is no way in hell I could do that. Rolling in at 2 am and seeing guys just coming to work....no thanks. Money cannot make up for that lifestyle...but that is just my opinion. |
Living the dream one nightmare at a time
Originally Posted by Junglejett
(Post 325890)
Why is there no mention of the wonderful health benefits of flying on the back side of the clock?
I had a pretty good shot at UPS and chose not to pursue it....and I have never looked back in regret. I know a ton UPS dudes and some struggle to get through a tour....and most look older than they are. I also spent a lot of time JS'ing with them...there is no way in hell I could do that. Rolling in at 2 am and seeing guys just coming to work....no thanks. Money cannot make up for that lifestyle...but that is just my opinion. |
Originally Posted by Dog Breath
(Post 325669)
letsfly,
Welcome to APC Forums! I'm not going to answer directly, but did you try using the Google search feature? It's located on the upper left side of the page. Most of your questions have been asked and answered many times before. Try it. You'll have plenty to read for a very long time. :) Best of Luck |
Been with Fedex for 8 years. I chose to sit reserve in Mem at my home. My reserve time starts at 1:30pm and ends at 1:30 am, 95% of my flying in the MD 11/10 is an afternoon leg to Chicago or JFK, go to bed for 12 Hrs and return the next Day.I seldom due Hub turns and almost never work at night.
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Originally Posted by Junglejett
(Post 325890)
Why is there no mention of the wonderful health benefits of flying on the back side of the clock?
I had a pretty good shot at UPS and chose not to pursue it....and I have never looked back in regret. I know a ton UPS dudes and some struggle to get through a tour....and most look older than they are. I also spent a lot of time JS'ing with them...there is no way in hell I could do that. Rolling in at 2 am and seeing guys just coming to work....no thanks. Money cannot make up for that lifestyle...but that is just my opinion. B2P |
Originally Posted by Junglejett
(Post 325890)
Why is there no mention of the wonderful health benefits of flying on the back side of the clock?
I had a pretty good shot at UPS and chose not to pursue it....and I have never looked back in regret. I know a ton UPS dudes and some struggle to get through a tour....and most look older than they are. I also spent a lot of time JS'ing with them...there is no way in hell I could do that. Rolling in at 2 am and seeing guys just coming to work....no thanks. Money cannot make up for that lifestyle...but that is just my opinion. I guess I should have said 95% of the other 5% are lying. That would have covered special cases like you. If he does what I told him he will see lots of excuses for why people said they turned down offers at FDX, UPS, or SW. |
Originally Posted by b2pilot186
(Post 325953)
Probably because like any job, if you get proper rest it's not a factor.
B2P SWA guys work hard but 99% of those that I know love it there. Being a pilot is not the healthiest lifestyle regardless...I think we can all admit that. Salty Dog...there is no shame in being a freight dog! I flew night cargo (in a Falcon 20..in fact..some old FedEx birds!) and I was proud of my freight dog status...and it made me a better pilot. |
Originally Posted by FDXLAG
(Post 325958)
I guess I should have said 95% of the other 5% are lying. That would have covered special cases like you. If he does what I told him he will see lots of excuses for why people said they turned down offers at FDX, UPS, or SW.
All three are great companies and anyone would be doing well to get on with any of them. I now can live just about anywhere and still NOT "commute", make good money (never what a UPS or FedEx will make), have good benefits, decent retirement, great QOL, flying brand new airplanes...life for me is good. |
Originally Posted by Junglejett
(Post 325963)
Tons of research says otherwise....but what do scientist know. And from personal experience....you always seem to be playing catch up...and you never do.
Look, each to his own...every pilot finds a way to make their own job work for them. The gig here at UPS is obviously different from the experience you had at your previous cargo job. :cool: B2P |
I just separated yesterday after 11 years, all in the C-17. I start training at CAL in another couple weeks.
I have tons of buddies at SWA, everyone I know loves it. From what I can tell (all second hand knowledge), SWA has very good scheduling, ability to drop trips and pick up open time at 2nd year pay. Most of them have been able to make about $55-85k their first year. None of my buddies have complained about the up & down legs. One of my friends has been there ab out 1.5 years and averages about 6-8 nights away from home per month by bidding out & back flights. The downside of SWA is that hiring has stagnated, meaning that until things pick up, it'll be longer on reserve, and longer at Oakland. I've heard that there's about 300 or so in the pool, and about 350 or projected class slots this year, so they won't be picking up many new hires off the street. As for me, I chose CAL because I can live in my USAF Reserve base and live within a reasonable drive of EWR. CAL's hiring has slowed, but I should be off reserve within a couple of months. Avoid a double commute if at all possible. |
Originally Posted by Junglejett
(Post 325963)
Tons of research says otherwise....but what do scientist know.
As a junior guy coming to an end of year 1 at Brown, I've flown approximately 75% day trips. I was more tired as a commuter guy with 6-9 legs a day and 0430 hotel vans to the airport than almost every trip I've done here. It should only get better with seniority(theoretically). ;) To each his own, I wouldn't trade it for anything. |
Originally Posted by letsfly
(Post 325661)
My first thread and it will be obvious.
My background is I am a C-17 guy with 3000 total, 1300 PIC and I have 14 months until I can get out of the AF. I have taken my ATP written and will probably take my FE written next week. I basically have a ton of questions about how and where to start my new life. Below are the questions I have, if you guys have time to take a look and answer a few I would be grateful. 1. Southwest seems like such a great place to go (assuming they are hiring) but all my friends at other airlines say that the up and down sorties and quantity of sorties will kill me. Any Southwest guys have anything to say about that? Southwest IS a really good place to go. From what I've seen (I'm not SW) many guys that aren't there say that there are too many legs. And just about all SWA guys say that they can handle it just fine. 2. What is a typical day at FedEx or UPS (assuming they are hiring) like? I know it isn't all night flying, but can anyone give me an example of a typical day? Is there such a thing?There is no such thing as a "typical" day at Fedex. There is a vast amount of varying schedules. There is all day flying available, all night, mixed, mixed day night within trips, all domestic, all international, etc. It's not all night flying but you will fly at night at times. You will fly less at FedEx (block hours) per year than just about all passenger carriers but pay hours are comparable. 3. For the cargo guys, do you spend a lot of time sitting overseas? Reserve? 4. For Fedex, where the hell is Subic Bay? Do all the new guys get stuck there?Man, you MUST be young. A MAC guy oops sorry AMC guy and you don't know where Clark AB and Subic are... have I been out that long? Seriously, Subic is closing for FedEx and you can't get "stuck" there. You can't get "stuck" overseas at FedEx---unless you are a new hire and that is the only openings. 5. For any airline/cargo where do your new guys get stuck? How long does it take to be able to hold somewhere else, where would that be?You have to research each company for this question. This is going to be varied for each company and only a "snapshot" at that moment. 6. Are the guaranteed minimums on airlinepilotcentral.com accurate for hours? Is the pay accurate? Airlinepilotcentral seems to be very accurate for the companies that I have researched. Data is pretty much spot on . Remember though that there can be wide swings in the guarantees depending on whether you pick up flying, trade with people drop flying etc. The Guarantee is what the company builds schedules to...depending on the company, you can change it sometimes greatly. And you are paid accordingly. 7. For any ex-military guys, was there anything that surprised you or that you didn't think about as you made the switch? Taxes bite a LOT harder than you can ever expect. You get quite a bit of breaks in the military. Depending on your company, health care costs can bite hard (if you don't have a good plan in the contract). Also, remember you'll need additional insurance too (disability, etc that was free in the military). 8. This might be obvious, but if I live at my domicile is there a chance some trips end up back there so I get an extra night at home during a trip? Can happen depending on the company. I guess that is enough for now, I don't want to overload the thread. Any help you guys can give me would be appreciated, please add comments or questions of things you think I should be thinking about if I didn't list it. |
Thanks for all the info so far guys, before I start my next comment I want to make sure everyone knows how humble I am. After reading my first post I didn't want anyone to get the impression that I thought getting a job outside of the AF was going to be easy, I will be happy to get a job period with any company.
One of my problems is that it seems like everyone likes who they work for (or say they do) and they all have very convincing arguments on why their company or flying schedule is the best. Being a AF cargo guy I am no stranger to flying long trips at night. I'd probably say at least half of my military flying has been at night, and I have to say when I get home from a trip at least the next day and most of the time to following day too is pretty rough. At the same time doing 6 legs in one fly period, which I have never done, seems pretty rough to. One more question, why don't more guys live at their domicile? It seems like not many guys do and it seems like it gives you extra days at home? Oh ya and Riddler I immediately recognized your screen picture, pretty cool! |
Obscure? Ok......name a scientist that would not fit in this description...according your definition. Is Stephen Hawking obscure?
And the fact that you put scientist in quotations...indicates your distaste (or lack of respect) for them....so what makes a scientist a scientist? Education, experience, experimentation in an controlled and uncontrolled environment, years of research? Would you put the scientist and engineers who developed.....let's say for example...maybe stealth technology...in "quotations"...or would you respect them for keeping your billion+ dollar jet semi-invisible? I would say the B2 is an example of science and technology coming together to make a "unique" airplane to say the least. Also, your "personal" experience does substitute or throw out reams of data taken over the course of years and countless hours of study and research. There will always be "exceptions" to any study...and you more than likely know that...maybe not. Just because YOUR personal experience says otherwise does not mean everyone will enjoy the same level of achievement in defeating the effects of a constant assault on circadian rhythms. If someone were to approach you and say "I smoke crack everyday and feel zero effects from it so you should be cool too.." would you start smoking crack? I mean research says its bad for you but what do those people know. They are just "scientist" after all. As for my cargo experience relative to UPS, we flew freight (maybe before you were there) for UPS and worked the same hours. It was tough... We also had plenty of rest...it was still tough. Enjoy the job...UPS is a great company. |
How much pull do people actually have?
One more thought...as I talk to my buddies at different companies they all say "ya man when you are ready let me know and I'll get you in." My question is how much pull does a pilot actually have at a company in regards to helping a buddy get an interview? I guess it depends on how long they have been there? Who they know at the company? How would they even go about "helping me".
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Originally Posted by letsfly
(Post 326617)
One more thought...as I talk to my buddies at different companies they all say "ya man when you are ready let me know and I'll get you in." My question is how much pull does a pilot actually have at a company in regards to helping a buddy get an interview? I guess it depends on how long they have been there? Who they know at the company? How would they even go about "helping me".
There are a handful of guys out there who are on very good terms with the right HR personnel and can get your app moved to the top of the stack fairly easily. However, in all reality, these folks are probably few and far between. |
Originally Posted by Junglejett
(Post 326612)
Obscure? Ok......name a scientist that would not fit in this description...according your definition. Is Stephen Hawking obscure?
And the fact that you put scientist in quotations...indicates your distaste (or lack of respect) for them....so what makes a scientist a scientist? Education, experience, experimentation in an controlled and uncontrolled environment, years of research? Would you put the scientist and engineers who developed.....let's say for example...maybe stealth technology...in "quotations"...or would you respect them for keeping your billion+ dollar jet semi-invisible? I would say the B2 is an example of science and technology coming together to make a "unique" airplane to say the least. Also, your "personal" experience does substitute or throw out reams of data taken over the course of years and countless hours of study and research. There will always be "exceptions" to any study...and you more than likely know that...maybe not. Just because YOUR personal experience says otherwise does not mean everyone will enjoy the same level of achievement in defeating the effects of a constant assault on circadian rhythms. If someone were to approach you and say "I smoke crack everyday and feel zero effects from it so you should be cool too.." would you start smoking crack? I mean research says its bad for you but what do those people know. They are just "scientist" after all. As for my cargo experience relative to UPS, we flew freight (maybe before you were there) for UPS and worked the same hours. It was tough... We also had plenty of rest...it was still tough. Enjoy the job...UPS is a great company. I just see a lot of folks throw out the generic "study" or the "scientist" without any links to a real study or real data. (...and the latest Wikipedia entry doesn't count). No worries though bud...like I said, each to his own. B2P |
Log out of this website and use google.....you will find plenty of information from "scientist" or other people not nearly as smart.
Make sure you have some time.....be well rested and read during the day...you retain more. |
In Fact, It IS Greener On This Side
letsfly,
No matter what you hear on this board about who has a crappy airline schedule, flying at ANY airline job is going to be about 10 times easier on you and your body and your family than it was on the C-17 active duty. My last 4.5 years AD were at CHS, and I know the pain. No 26-hour crew duty days waived to 31-hours followed by 17 hours (if you're lucky) off then another. I wish I had left AD sooner--the AD C-17 is what made me look 10-15 years older than what I really am. Your going to like it on the other side no matter how much you get paid, how much you work at night, and how many turns you do in a day.
Originally Posted by b2pilot186
(Post 325953)
Probably because like any job, if you get proper rest it's not a factor. You're also not getting blasted by doing the multiple turns that the guys at Southwest do. When I interviewed at Southwest, all the friends I had working there looked about 10-15 years older than they should've...simply ragged/worn out appearance. No thanks to that kind of lifesyle.
B2P |
It doesn't matter, Solar or Lunar radiation, day vs night, intl. or flying out of EWR everyday, it's all killing you. Go get your ATP, either in a 737 or weekend crash course in a seminole (good for a lifetime). You might want to hold off on the FE written until you're ready to send out apps. (a 2 yr limit on the FEW). A lot depends on hiring windows opening, hopefully in 14 months the dust will start to settle on this age 65 thing, and that most airlines will be hiring again. Things will be slow in 2008 in Mem, probably at UPS and SWA too.
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Originally Posted by Junglejett
(Post 326716)
Log out of this website and use google.....you will find plenty of information from "scientist" or other people not nearly as smart.
Make sure you have some time.....be well rested and read during the day...you retain more. B2P |
Originally Posted by letsfly
(Post 326617)
One more thought...as I talk to my buddies at different companies they all say "ya man when you are ready let me know and I'll get you in." My question is how much pull does a pilot actually have at a company in regards to helping a buddy get an interview? I guess it depends on how long they have been there? Who they know at the company? How would they even go about "helping me".
In my experience, I've gotten guys an interview pretty quickly. (ie a few months)..... and when I was interviewing, all the places that a buddy helped me--I got called pretty quickly. At places I didn't have a buddy, I was either called later or not called at all. (Hope this helps). |
Originally Posted by CheyDogFlies
(Post 326750)
letsfly,
No matter what you hear on this board about who has a crappy airline schedule, flying at ANY airline job is going to be about 10 times easier on you and your body and your family than it was on the C-17 active duty. My last 4.5 years AD were at CHS, and I know the pain. No 26-hour crew duty days waived to 31-hours followed by 17 hours (if you're lucky) off then another. I wish I had left AD sooner--the AD C-17 is what made me look 10-15 years older than what I really am. Your going to like it on the other side no matter how much you get paid, how much you work at night, and how many turns you do in a day. I second this. No matter what company you end up working for, I've found that it's very much easier on you than military flying ever was---especially lately with the conflicts going on..... |
Thanks for all the info, with 14 months to go (how's counting) I still have some time. I just got my written done, I'm taking my FE test on Friday and will probably do higher power for my ATP practical in July. Once that is done I will be 10 months out and will start throwing applications and resumes in every direction. Along with getting some help from my buddies I think at least now sitting here I have a pretty good plan. Just hope people are hiring in early '09!
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Letsfly,
If you're looking to save money, consider getting your 737 type and ATP at Flight Training International. I did a 7 day course (which requires prior home study) for 5 grand, as opposed to about 8 grand at Higher Power. It's a really laid back course, and you end up saving quite a bit of money. Just my 2 cents. |
Originally Posted by letsfly
(Post 325661)
1. Southwest seems like such a great place to go (assuming they are hiring) but all my friends at other airlines say that the up and down sorties and quantity of sorties will kill me. Any Southwest guys have anything to say about that? Sometimes, having frequent legs actually makes the day go by faster. You're always busy and your mind's active and it really isn't that bad at all. The best part is, there is no redeeye flying, besides the charter. It's either AMs or PMs. I would rather fly 6-7 legs during the day than 1 super long red eye. We do work hard here, but that also means we get alot of time off. |
OttoA10 - I thought about going to another 737 school that was a little cheaper, but some people told me that Higher Power was really good with Southwest...meaning Southwest actually visits each class and there is a long standing relationship between the two companies. Do you think that really matters in the end?
C17MooseDriver - I actually thought the same thing that I would actually enjoy the ups and downs...at least for awhile. Being a C-17 guy they long cruise is starting to kill me! Takeoff and landings are the fun part where you are actually doing something, I am sure I will change my mind but for now I was glad to read your reply. |
Originally Posted by letsfly
(Post 326597)
\
Being a AF cargo guy I am no stranger to flying long trips at night. I'd probably say at least half of my military flying has been at night, and I have to say when I get home from a trip at least the next day and most of the time to following day too is pretty rough. At the same time doing 6 legs in one fly period, which I have never done, seems pretty rough to. The Airforce 3 hour preflight will seem silly and redundant, which it is. |
Originally Posted by HoursHore
(Post 328089)
The Airforce 3 hour preflight will seem silly and redundant, which it is.
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Originally Posted by letsfly
(Post 328066)
OttoA10 - I thought about going to another 737 school that was a little cheaper, but some people told me that Higher Power was really good with Southwest...meaning Southwest actually visits each class and there is a long standing relationship between the two companies. Do you think that really matters in the end?
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Originally Posted by planeview
(Post 328400)
Wait, you're telling me the fact that the IP does a walk around after the FP did a walk around after the FE did a walk around is silly and redundant?!?! :D
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Originally Posted by Flounder
(Post 328559)
:mad:Oh great, now what am I going to do to kill time before my next C-130 flight? I know, submit a letter to the AF Redundant Department of Redundancy. I won't miss the AD show 5 hours before a tac mission. Can't wait for common sense in the commercial world--and don't bust my bubble and tell me it doesn't exist!:eek:
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Originally Posted by Flounder
(Post 328559)
:mad:Oh great, now what am I going to do to kill time before my next C-130 flight? I know, submit a letter to the AF Redundant Department of Redundancy. I won't miss the AD show 5 hours before a tac mission. Can't wait for common sense in the commercial world--and don't bust my bubble and tell me it doesn't exist!:eek:
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Originally Posted by planeview
(Post 328641)
Don't forget that the AF created a process to designed to remove processes in AFSO21. Maybe you could write a recommendation to the AF that they should AFSO21 the AFSO21 process. Then your process to remove the process that removes processes would allow you to process yourself through the award process which would allow you to outprocess with processing proficiency.
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Originally Posted by Rocco
(Post 328658)
Wow....I dont even know what you are saying. Is it THAT bad?
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Originally Posted by letsfly
(Post 328066)
OttoA10 - I thought about going to another 737 school that was a little cheaper, but some people told me that Higher Power was really good with Southwest...meaning Southwest actually visits each class and there is a long standing relationship between the two companies. Do you think that really matters in the end?
With SWA not currently hiring, it's a difficult decision on whether you should put down some $$$ for a type or not. |
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